Is 45-70 too much for Deer

chrisco

chrisco

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Downstream of the Falls -- Ontario
I feel like a hunting newb asking this question, but I would really like to know what the experts have to say.

Here is the situation. I am looking to thin the herd (pardon the pun) a bit to make room for some new toys. I typically hunt the shotgun season for whitetail deer here in southern Ontario.
I do have plans for some deer hunting in the future in the Northern areas where rifle hunting is permitted.

So, I am wondering if I part ways with the trusted 30-30; Is my 45-70 too much for deer? Or is it simply a matter of the right load for the choice of game?
 
I do not claim to be an expert hunter or the best shooter but i do use a 45-70 for deer hunting and with the right combo’ of bullet and velocity it causes much less meat damage than a high power rifle.
At our hunt camp we have guys with 270’s, 30 30’s, 30-06 and im the only guy with a 45-70.
Well every time a deer was shot with a 270 or the 30-06 there was always that part by the entry site of bloodshot meat, sometimes on entry and on exit.
Diameter of bloodshot meat varied from a few inches to almost a mini soccer ball.
When deer were shot with the 45-70 there was about 1 to 2 inches of bloodshot meat around a nice clean hole which is about thumb size.
In one particular case a bullet hit the shoulder it made a hole in the scapula bone (didn’t shatter it) and out the other side between the ribs.
When i first saw the deer down and hit in the shoulder i thought that we had lost that quarter of meat but it was far from it after i had a look when it was skinned. Was just a hole in the shoulder with only about 1 inch of bloodshot meat around where the bullet made a hole in the scapula bone.
The 45-70 has allot of energy and can punch a nice hole even at lower velocities which reduces fragmentation and meat damage.
 
For what it's worth, this fall I shot a mature wt doe from maybe 30yds, in the neck, about 2" below her skull with my 450 and a 350gr hornady going maybe 21-2200fps(50gr imr 3031 in a blr).
There was absolutely no bullet expansion, and a .243 would have caused more meat damage. The most surprising thing (for me)was how the deer dropped at what appeared to be a rate much faster than gravity would allow. I've been hunting most of my life and I've never seen an animal drop that fast. This was a big bodied deer, too. (it's the one in the pic to the left :D )

To be fair, had the bullet hit a larger bone, say shoulder just below the scapula or something, would the bullet have flattened and tore out the opposite shoulder meat? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Last couple yrs I've become a huge fan of larger, slower bullets. They don't have the range, but they also don't make a mess like the fast'n'flat claibres, yet they simply POUND the game down.

I don't claim to completely understand it, and I still love my fast'n'flat calibres for some hunting situations, but I also understand why some calibres have been around forever.
 
I own one and wouldn't hesitate to use it for deer ( haven't had the chance ) I just started reloading only done some cheap cast 420's. Haven't worked out accuracy etc. Hornady Leverevolution 325gr bullets are real accurate, not bad on the recoil end, and seem to be about ideal for deer size game. Other standard factory loadings are pretty mild. The only way it could be considered " too much " is if you are very recoil sensitive, other rounds can get the job done with less recoil.
 
NolanOsborn said:
I own one and wouldn't hesitate to use it for deer ( haven't had the chance ) I just started reloading only done some cheap cast 420's. Haven't worked out accuracy etc. Hornady Leverevolution 325gr bullets are real accurate, not bad on the recoil end, and seem to be about ideal for deer size game. Other standard factory loadings are pretty mild. The only way it could be considered " too much " is if you are very recoil sensitive, other rounds can get the job done with less recoil.
Click to expand...

Blah,

LeveRevolution bullets are NOT accurate. The factory ammo isn't bad, but the federal 300Gr groups better for me.

If you want to shoot Hornady bullets in a 45-70 at game, the 350FPs are ideal for deer through moose. The 300HPs blow the sh!t out of meat unless you slow them down.

If a rifle likes cast, 405 hard cast is a good choice also.

Other than being able to easily reload in the field, the biggest benefit to a straight walled case like the 45-70 if you ask me is the ability to load shot for plugging grouse and bunnies while you're at camp or out on a slow deer day.
 
thebigslide said:
Blah,
The 300HPs blow the sh!t out of meat unless you slow them down.
Click to expand...

Not true...I used the 300 hollow point for about 5 years of flat-lands deer hunting and it never did any damage to a deer except kill it outright and with authority. The load was cranked out at nearly 2200 fps in a Ruger #1. Recoil was manageable and accuracy at 100 yards was astounding. I shot deer anywhere from 10 yards (scared the daylights out of me) to 150 yards with this rifle/load combo and they were all one shot kills and the deer never moved from where they were standing...they just dropped, like getting hit with a sledgehammer.
I don't know much about the lever guns in 45-70...I am a fan of the Ruger #1!!!!
 
The great question from hunters...is it dead enough or extra dead if I use caliber X! 45-70 is perfect for deer. I use LE and like the set up. You have to remember that there is a difference between a big bullet going slow and a light bullet going very fast. Both work but in different ways. To me, bullet selection is more important that the caliber...most hunting calibers make deer dead...
 
I've taken deer with my .45-70 single shot Hiwall.
They were shot at relatively close, from a blind, in the brush.
They didn't travel more than a few feet.
I was using Varget and a 350 grain lead bullet.
 
chrisco said:
I feel like a hunting newb asking this question, but I would really like to know what the experts have to say.

Here is the situation. I am looking to thin the herd (pardon the pun) a bit to make room for some new toys. I typically hunt the shotgun season for whitetail deer here in southern Ontario.
I do have plans for some deer hunting in the future in the Northern areas where rifle hunting is permitted.

So, I am wondering if I part ways with the trusted 30-30; Is my 45-70 too much for deer? Or is it simply a matter of the right load for the choice of game?
Click to expand...

Me too, What areas of Northern Ontario?

I would pick the 45-70 over a 30-30.

Both being close range calibers, the 45 has more punch and I would have no hesitation in losing a 30-30 over the big bore 45-70.
 
I have a guide gun in 4570 and love hunting with it.

My experience with the Lever Evolution is that they are super accurate in my gun (cloverleaf at 50 yards) but they ruin a significant amount of meat. My handloads, a 300 grain JSP, just punches on through with minimal meat loss and with both loads they drop in their tracks.

A great gun for deer and bear, for sure.
 
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