using varmint bullets for big game is just plain irresponsible and unethical. The 223 and similar are absolutely capable of killing deer cleanly, given moderate ranges, surgical placement, with a controlled expansion big game bullet
is a .223 enough for a deer?
- Thread starter Kyler
- Start date
I just shot my deer with a bigger cal, (not by much but enough) Now I hit the buck basically point blank at 20 paces, in the shoulder with a 140grain 6.5x55mm swedish mauser, and that deer DID not go down, he ran off at least 150 yards, before he began to think about slowing down... I hit him again from 100 yards to drop him. After skinning him and inspecting the initial point blank hit, His upper left shoulder was BLOWN TO ####..... with a hole about 6"by 6"
This has already made me think that a bigger more powerful bullet is required for a clean human kill and you want to use a .223
My advice.. "DO NOT DO IT BRO"
Here is a LEFT side view of my Saturday Buck, shot with a 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser 140grain Hornady at 20 paces, basically point blank with full velocity approx 2700 fps, and energy approx 2000 ft pounds.. Looks normal right...
Well then you take the hide off and see what damage this bullet did.. AND remember this deer did NOT DROP... He RAN another 150 to 200 Yards, and was still going, mind you slowly at that point and limping, BUT lucky for me He did not hit the tree line but rather ended up in an open field. AND YOU WANT TO USE A SMALLER CALIBER BULLET... Like someone said you had better be a good tacker OR hit him good. Now granted my shot placement is less than ideal, but deer are funny. I was aiming for behind the shoulder I.E. in the vitals, but just as I squeezed off the round, the buck actually stepped back a pace to get a better look at me, hince the round hitting him farther forward.
I am not saying that a .223 would not drop a deer, just that based on this expierence I in future will be using a larger caliber rifle, to help lessen the risk of wounding and losing a deer.. cause that would just SUCK..
This has already made me think that a bigger more powerful bullet is required for a clean human kill and you want to use a .223
My advice.. "DO NOT DO IT BRO"
Here is a LEFT side view of my Saturday Buck, shot with a 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser 140grain Hornady at 20 paces, basically point blank with full velocity approx 2700 fps, and energy approx 2000 ft pounds.. Looks normal right...
Well then you take the hide off and see what damage this bullet did.. AND remember this deer did NOT DROP... He RAN another 150 to 200 Yards, and was still going, mind you slowly at that point and limping, BUT lucky for me He did not hit the tree line but rather ended up in an open field. AND YOU WANT TO USE A SMALLER CALIBER BULLET... Like someone said you had better be a good tacker OR hit him good. Now granted my shot placement is less than ideal, but deer are funny. I was aiming for behind the shoulder I.E. in the vitals, but just as I squeezed off the round, the buck actually stepped back a pace to get a better look at me, hince the round hitting him farther forward.
I am not saying that a .223 would not drop a deer, just that based on this expierence I in future will be using a larger caliber rifle, to help lessen the risk of wounding and losing a deer.. cause that would just SUCK..
Wow K98, thats a lot of damage for a deep penetrating bullet like the 6.5mm. suspect the bullet tumbled off the shoulder bones, or ribs and blasted through sideways on that shoulder exit wound.( bullet fragments) normally they pass through with minimal lead loss.
The 223 with mid sized game abilities (as mentioned) will work, they are extremely lethal if placed well, but why gamble, use a bigger cal to get'er done.
I've shot really big bucks through the heart or lungs with 243's to 30 cal's and they've always run 100 to near 200 yds amazingly, they would have run that far, hit with a fifty cal.
Not many drop dead (paralyzed) without a bit of spine hit in the equation.
The 223 with mid sized game abilities (as mentioned) will work, they are extremely lethal if placed well, but why gamble, use a bigger cal to get'er done.
I've shot really big bucks through the heart or lungs with 243's to 30 cal's and they've always run 100 to near 200 yds amazingly, they would have run that far, hit with a fifty cal.
Not many drop dead (paralyzed) without a bit of spine hit in the equation.
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Dude,,, that is the ENTRY wound... and EXIT wound.. if you follow me.. I hit him right there, the left shoulder, but the bullet basically EXPLODED on the shoulder bone, (Shoulder bone was SHATTERED) and only penetrated as deep as that big hole... Bullet lost all its enery and mass after hitting the bone??
Wow K98, thats a lot of damage for a deep penetrating bullet like the 6.5mm. suspect the bullet tumbled off the shoulder bones, or ribs and blasted through sideways on that shoulder exit wound.( bullet fragments) normally they pass through with minimal lead loss.
The 223 with mid sized game abilities (as mentioned) will work, they are extremely lethal if placed well, but why gamble, use a bigger cal to get'er done.
I've shot really big bucks through the heart or lungs with 243's to 30 cal's and they've always run 100 to near 200 yds amazingly, they would have run that far, hit with a fifty cal.
Not many drop dead (paralyzed) without a bit of spine hit in the equation.
Glock4ever
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- Edmonton, AB
What type of bullet did you use? Looks really explosive... I honestly believe a 140 grain bullet is more then enough lead to kill a deer. Surprised you had such poor results maybe I am lucky but I have only seen one incident where the deer didn't drop in it's tracks and ran off - it was with a .30-06 and that was just poor shot placement.
You know what Lefty,, you could be right, I don't know but it just may have deflected off a rib and exited the same side shoulder,, either way what a mess eh...
I will be sending these results to Hornady for information and hopefully an explaination, as I too believe that this bullet should NOT have performed this way...
I will be sending these results to Hornady for information and hopefully an explaination, as I too believe that this bullet should NOT have performed this way...
I wouldn't use my Tikka .223 for deer, unless it was a survival situation. It's not ethical. Scary as it is, Winchester 64 gr. Power-point are rated by them Winchester Ammunition), at 1296 lft lbs @ muzzle, and 1003 at 100 yards.They are rated for Light thin skin game, whitetail deer. If i had to use a round, it would be this one, but like i said, I would not attempt to hunt by choice, with the .223. ... go with at least a .243. Also, this is a hunting thread, lets leave the sandbox out of it, please.
if you placed the bullet 6-8" further back into the vitals, the deer most likely would not of made it 50 yards, just like the results of a 53 gr TSX out of a 223
I totally realize that. I actually had cross hairs lined up just behind the shoulder, which is why I indicated a lung shot in my November buck thread. But when I recall the shot, I do remember just as I squeezed the trigger off, that buck actually stepped back a pace or two, as it seemed to me he was trying to get a better look at me past a tree which was slightly obscuring his view which resulted in the bullet striking him forward of my initial POA.
All I am trying to point out is that if using a .223 and your bullet placement is not ideal (like mine with a bigger bullet was not ideal) you will have a more likely chance of NOT recovering a wounded deer.
Does that not make sense or will someone else also have to state the obvious that if the .223 is placed in an ideal location that it will kill a deer.
i'd say all that proves is that the 6.5x55 is not an adequate deer cartridge.
oh yeah, i planted a 200gr 8mm nosler partition through a buck's lungs the other night and he ran at least 100 yards before falling over.
i think next year i might go for the trifecta, a deer with each of; an sks, buckshot, and a 22 centerfire.
oh yeah, i planted a 200gr 8mm nosler partition through a buck's lungs the other night and he ran at least 100 yards before falling over.
i think next year i might go for the trifecta, a deer with each of; an sks, buckshot, and a 22 centerfire.
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Using 22 caliber rifles for deer is not recommend for hunters who's definition of 'right behind the shoulder' is somewhere between the neck and infront of the guts
Also, dont use a varmint bullet deer aren't gophers or coyotes
Also, dont use a varmint bullet
deer aren't gophers or coyotes
Not sure yet, but I spoke to the dealer who sold them and he thinks it should have been interloks.. and was very surprized at the result.. he suggested I send the report into Hornady for evaluation
But I have to check the box and lot number etc to find out and it is now in Edmonton and I am in FT mac working.. won't know until 10 days when I get back home
I've been out coyote hunting this last week one of the rifles I'm using is my single shot T/C Contender carbine with a 21" 223 barrel.
I use 50gr Sierra Blitz @ 3020fps for coyotes but switch up to 55gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws if I have a chance to shoot a deer.
I use 50gr Sierra Blitz @ 3020fps for coyotes but switch up to 55gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws if I have a chance to shoot a deer.
K98, you ave a bullet problem, not a cartridge problem...
Also, your placement coudl have been better.
No offense but thanks for reminding me what I already mentioned regarding bullet placement. Did I not already talk about my bullet placement somewhere in this thread???
No offense but thanks for reminding me what I already mentioned regarding bullet placement. Did I not already talk about my bullet placement somewhere in this thread???
Oh, maybe...that's why the
More interesting is how the bullet performed. There is no need for going to a "bigger" cartridge. Go to a better bullet. Did the bullet even penetrate past the shoulder?
This is a classic example of why good bullets can make a difference. That's not an idel place to hit an animal, but your 6.5 shoudl have killed the hell out of it!
Holy crap guys!
There was nothing wrong with the bullet in K98's 6.5x55. That is one of the best penetrating bullet/weight combos of all time.
The problem was that the was that no part of the bullet hit the vitals. The one that did hit the vitals did its job, very well by the sounds of it. It wouldn't have mattered if the bullet that went through the shoulder was a 55 grain hollow point from a .223 rem, or a 500 grain round nose from a .458 Win Mag. It was a flesh wound simple as that.
I am NOT criticizing anyone hunt/shooting ability in any way. Things happen when deer jump up like that. It's happened to me and I bet it has happened to everyone who has hunted deer more than, say, once...
The .22 center fires, will kill deer like lightning in the right hands, with the right bullet, with good placement, at the proper range for the the hunter, animal, etc... in question.
My opinion is that they are not a good choice. I personally like to see something above .25 cal. just an opinion though
There was nothing wrong with the bullet in K98's 6.5x55. That is one of the best penetrating bullet/weight combos of all time.
The problem was that the was that no part of the bullet hit the vitals. The one that did hit the vitals did its job, very well by the sounds of it. It wouldn't have mattered if the bullet that went through the shoulder was a 55 grain hollow point from a .223 rem, or a 500 grain round nose from a .458 Win Mag. It was a flesh wound simple as that.
I am NOT criticizing anyone hunt/shooting ability in any way. Things happen when deer jump up like that. It's happened to me and I bet it has happened to everyone who has hunted deer more than, say, once...
The .22 center fires, will kill deer like lightning in the right hands, with the right bullet, with good placement, at the proper range for the the hunter, animal, etc... in question.
My opinion is that they are not a good choice. I personally like to see something above .25 cal. just an opinion though
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