is CCW during vacation practical?

cybershooters said:
18 USC 922(y)(2) restricts non-immigrant aliens to possessing firearms for "sporting purposes" only, unless you have the authority of the US Attorney General, which you can't even apply for unless you've been in the US for at least six months. And if you're there as a tourist, you can only be in the US for up to six months, hence the time limit.

That's not to say you can't get a carry permit (subject to State law, most States that issue them require you to be a US resident and/or citizen and to prove it, but not all, e.g. Utah), and carry a loaded handgun on you, but under federal law you can only do it for "sporting purposes".

What would happen if you shot someone in self-defence as a non-immigrant alien who has a carry permit is an interesting question. Depends on whether the Feds notice, I suspect. Since it's never happened, it's a question that can't be answered.
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so you are telling us it doesn't make sense to get CCW for canadian citizen without US citizen?
 
If we couldn't carry concealed would some States bother to issue us CCW permits?

I have one of each. A Utah "Concealed Firearm Permit" and New Hampshire "Non Resident Pistol/Revolver License".

According to the ATF you need a Form 6NIA to enter the US. That requires an invitation to a shooting event or a hunting license. If you have a hunting license it doesn't have to be for the State you are in - according to the ATF.
The Form 6NIA is to satisfy Federal regulations only. Once you are in the USA then you just have to worry about satisfying the State regulations and laws. If you are in a State that recognizes your CCW then you can carrying a gun concealed providing you follow all of that States rules and regulations. The Federal Government has no say in the matter.
A CCW is not a license to kill like James Bond. It is just a permit that says you can carry a gun in a concealed holster instead of your trunk locked in a case. In States that recognize our CCW's the police there do not care why you have the gun as long as you have a Form 6. They only care about State and local laws. If your CCW is recognized in the State and you are following the State regs you are fine.
That is because the USA is a free country whereas Canada is country that only pretends that it is free.
 
Is there anyway we can get this put up as a sticky? We seem to have a twice weekly argument on this board in regards to the various laws and regulations concerning CCW in the USA.
 
Lets get the text of the law right

I agree it is an interesting armchair amusement. I would have to presume that you are saying if you used a firearm to defend your life and some overzealous LEO, DA, or State really wanted to put the screws to you, they would. Well, duh.:rolleyes: That goes without saying. Life will get complicated after a defensive shooting. It can happen to a US citizen too.;) The only solace there is it is better than you and/or a family member being dead or beaten.:) If you are looking for absolute guarantee's, life holds none.

Now to the actual legal question. Your use of Title 18 is not accurate nor is it consistent with legal opinion of ATF chief counsel on the matter. The text is actually found in Title 18, Chapter 44, Section 923 (y) (2) (a). It states: Non Immigrant Alien "admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States." You notice the several "or" s and there is not a single "only" as you previously misquoted. To the reasonable individual the word "or" is pretty self explanatory. Now, I am no lawyer and the interpretation of this passage of congressional law is best left to Government lawyers. But wait it has been so interpretted by ATF counsel. They clearly realize the intent of the word "or". Beyond that they did decide that one could challenge the "or permit" as meaning a CCW permit (excluding the need of a hunting license) but advised that we should err on the side of caution as this law was passed before CCW permits were even on the radar. It is reasonable to believe that congress intended that piece of text to mean "hunting license or (hunting) permit", not CCW.

So I guess if the ATF who has issued written opinion, Customs and Border Protection who are admitting us with the permit and firearm, and the State who is issuing the permit are all conspiring and facilitating us in this; to fake us out and get us to come down and carry, so they can arrest us and pretend what they have facilitated is illegal, you may have a point. I doubt it.:confused:

We will revisit this again in a few months. As we have in the past several times. Please sticky this! My fingers are getting tired:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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More interesting info:
For Canadians who have a membership to an American shooting club or wish to enter the USA for casual shooting (not a specific competition):
http://www.losttarget.com/form6.html#Exempt

Club Membership
ATF WILL NOT issue a ATF Form 6NIA because you belong to an American club, or wish to visit an American club for casual shooting.

ATF is recommending you obtain a hunting license (from any state), and they will issue a ATF Form 6NIA, good for one year.

The holder of the ATF Form 6NIA must have a valid stateside hunting license for the issue period, or the ATF Form 6NIA is not usable.

http://www.losttarget.com/form6.html#Target
The hunting license/permit DOES NOT have to be from the State where you will be importing and/or using the firearm(s) and ammunition.

http://www.losttarget.com/form6.html#Invitation
Sec. 178.115 Exempt importation

Paragraph 17:

In general, nonimmigrant aliens are prohibited from possessing or receiving firearms or ammunition in the United States. There are exceptions to this prohibition, including: (1) a nonimmigrant alien in possession of a valid hunting license or permit issued by a State within the United States, and (2) a nonimmigrant alien in possession of an invitation or registration to attend a competitive target shooting event or sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local organization devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms.
 
so if you were a club member in a state, had a ccw, had a hunting licence, had a 6nia and everything was valid..it should be hassle free right?

How is Alaska? I was wondering about camping up there.. Any hassles or is it one of the friendlier states?
 
God and guns are hated in New York, Illinois, and California. Funny how they are all at the top as far as violent gun crime and have the most repressive gun laws???
 
If I had a CCW, how would I even get my gun into the USA? Is it both feasible and legal to cross the border into the USA with a firearm? How about getting back again?
 
Another, related, question

Safeguardguy,

1. When are you coming back to Halifax to run a course?

2. Is it legal for me to go the the US (with all the required paperwork: Form 6, hunting lic., CCW permit) and purchase a pistol while I am there?

I would like to purchase a G19 or something similar for CCW while I was in the US. Obviously I would have to sell it before I returned home.

Cheers
 
"...purchase a pistol while I am there?..." No. U.S. Federal law, that applies in all States, prohibits non-resident aliens from buying any firearm or ammo unless you're there to hunt or attend a target shooting match. Then you get to deal with State laws as well. Some have residency requirements, usually 90 days, depending on the State. Plus some municipalities have there own laws. NYC for one.
Surf over to the ATF site and read the FAQ's. We should all be thankful there's no such government agency here that is allowed to make law by regulation.
 
sunray said:
"...purchase a pistol while I am there?..." No. U.S. Federal law, that applies in all States, prohibits non-resident aliens from buying any firearm or ammo unless you're there to hunt or attend a target shooting match. Then you get to deal with State laws as well. Some have residency requirements, usually 90 days, depending on the State. Plus some municipalities have there own laws. NYC for one.
Surf over to the ATF site and read the FAQ's. We should all be thankful there's no such government agency here that is allowed to make law by regulation.
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Sarcasm added for dramatic effect; Right?
 
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