Is excessive Logging , hurting the bear pop in your area
- Thread starter Spruster
- Start date
In my area CWD is not a problem. There are areas that are however. Saskatchewan Environment posts on their website where positive test results were observed. They also will test your deer heads or samples for CWD. I only ever submitted 2 heads. I've never been concerned about CWD. I know that it's more common in animals that herd up like mule deer and elk. Moose and whitetail have lower incidence of the disease. And to be clear, baiting does not spread CWD. It's the deer themselves that spread it through direct contact with each other usually through licking. The disease is spread through saliva and mucous membranes.
I don't think that banning baiting will decrease the prevalence of the disease. Nor do I think extensive culls will reduce the incidence of CWD. I believe eventually a resistance trait against the disease will eventually occur naturally and gradually provide deer that inherit the gene resistance to the disease and this will be passed to offspring over time. But is is a possibility that the disease will just continue to flare up and go away in much the same way as Rabies, the deadliest disease known to humanity.
I've hunted all sorts of ways and methods. I'm going through a baiting phase. I like the intimate up close and personal opportunities that setting up over bait provides. Plus I don't have time to spend a week in a wilderness camping out. I have a limited amount of time to hunt and dragging out a deer from miles back in the bush isn't an option for me. I like to head out to the blind for the day and have a sit watching the animals. It's also interesting seeing how they move in and behave around each other. Hunting over bait isn't a guarantee and it's really a lot of work but hopefully worth the reward.
It's just a different way of hunting that has a different feel to it. A different experience. Every hunter should have the opportunity to hunt over bait if they choose.
Is that pretty concrete at this point?
I've never read Canada's guidelines on it yet, but the US govt seems to be of the opinion that it can be spread indirectly through saliva etc. Urine is a stretch, since last i checked unless you actually introduce it to the brain it doesn't take....but a bunch of deer slobbering over the same grain pile is a lot of saliva going from mouth to mouth.
I'd be happy to hear that we've ruled that out as a source of transmission.
As for cutting, you've touched on a really interesting point. To me, at least. What amount of disturbance is the right amount of disturbance? The fairly textbook moose behaviour is to prefer options, with great open browsing ground between say 60-150 meters of mature trees depending on if you're a bull, cow, cow with calves etc. I'm with you on successional stages and that there's a 1-3 or so year gap before a clear cut has much to offer a moose in the way of food, but once it gets going, it offers a lot of nutrients in very efficient browsing range.
In 1997 Rempel proved that large clear cuts can outperform mosiac cuts (thought to be ideal) and untouched mature forest as far as raising population densities go. That said, the problem with the mosaic cuts wasn't the habitat itself, it was the amount of roads and access in the mosaic cuts, while the larger clear cut areas had their roads blocked and hunting restricted!
I guess what I am getting at is that we can't say, overall, how much standing forest vs how much clearcut is truly ideal for Bullwinkle, only that if he is not shot out of clearcuts he does just fine. That question remains though.
Just some thoughts on baiting and spread of CWD. I personally don't think baiting or banning it would have much affect on the spread. I hear the argument that a bait brings a bunch of deer together in one spot making the spread easier but then what about an alfalfa field or even some other natural attractive feed? Especially in the winter when there are large herds of whitetail, elk and mule deer feeding on an easily accessible food source such as a wind swept hill where the snow isn't too deep, etc? I can't imagine a bait is going to be any worse for spreading than any number of natural scenarios that bring deer together. Also from my own experience running baits in the forest for whitetail I will give an example. I run a lot of cameras in the area I bait and have been doing so for years. You get to know the bucks in the area and numbers pretty well from the cameras. These bucks and most likely the does often live their entire lives in a pretty small area. They are interacting and feeding in the same areas all the time. During the couple months I run a bait most of them but not all, will feed there at some point. At other times most of them but again, not all, will feed heavily on various vegetation along the beaver dams and sloughs once they freeze up. You can see massive amounts of digging and trails going to and from these natural food sources, just as much as there are going to the alfalfa bales.
Just my thoughts and experiences. Probably a lot of rambling that may or may not make sense lol
Just my thoughts and experiences. Probably a lot of rambling that may or may not make sense lol
I would love to burn the fields every 2-3 years. That would go a long way to cleaning up the wood tick problem and create unbelievably lush browse for the bears, deer and rabbits. Only issue is if it ever spread to the forest and other land owners I'd be in big trouble.
The other parts of the property that have not been cleared have never been logged. The burr oak trees are 24 inches thick and a couple hundred years old. There are also green ash trees around the same thickness. Obviously the white spruce, balsam fir and poplar have life spans of 80 years or so. I cut several smaller oaks to widen my trails and a 4 inch thick oak was 50+ years old. Here is some pics of the wildlife on the property. There is also a creek that runs to the lake which makes for excellent bow fishing when water levels are high in the spring.
Manitoba isn't known for high density wildlife areas but there can very high quality animals if left alone to grow old.
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It’s funny you guys complaining about logging destroying wildlife then showing the exact opposite. Spruce and poplar will live longer than 80 years. Balsam fir is a pioneering species that grows after a disturbance, please don’t build a cabin on the stumps.
Count the rings on that black ash cookie I posted it was cut out of ditch in Fort Frances (long history of logging on both side of the river. Your property is productive because of the transitional zones. Your “river” looks like it was dug with an excavator.
https://vancouverislandbigtrees.########.com/2011/05/colossal-coastal-cottonwoods.html?m=1
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...n-Quebec-Canada.pdf?origin=publication_detail
The boreal forest is not made up of “old” trees, disturbances fire and disease limit the life span of the trees, which is all the more reason to log it. Again this is completely different from the costal rainforest of bc or the long gone forests of southern Ontario.
Count the rings on that black ash cookie I posted it was cut out of ditch in Fort Frances (long history of logging on both side of the river. Your property is productive because of the transitional zones. Your “river” looks like it was dug with an excavator.
https://vancouverislandbigtrees.########.com/2011/05/colossal-coastal-cottonwoods.html?m=1
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...n-Quebec-Canada.pdf?origin=publication_detail
The boreal forest is not made up of “old” trees, disturbances fire and disease limit the life span of the trees, which is all the more reason to log it. Again this is completely different from the costal rainforest of bc or the long gone forests of southern Ontario.
interesting discussion here. the difference between regions is great to read. bears are plentiful here. hardly any old growth forest, likely only preserve land, and constant harvesting seem to be good for bear. add in the fact that farm ground is their greatest food source
Thats kinda the deal here...maybe in broadleaf forest where there's a lot of nuts with high fat/high protein content that's better for them. But where that isn't going to happen, lots and lots of berries do Yogi pretty well too. Takes a ton, but he can get them.
Poplar might live pretty long under optimal conditions but rare is the trembling aspen that sees 80 here, dodging stuff like phellinus tremuloides all the way. The saw toothed versions can get pretty old and nice tho! Tougher eh?
Poplar might live pretty long under optimal conditions but rare is the trembling aspen that sees 80 here, dodging stuff like phellinus tremuloides all the way. The saw toothed versions can get pretty old and nice tho! Tougher eh?
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
Can you share any evidence of this, like actual research and studies, which support your opinion?
5 pages of you acting like a know it all with absolutely nothing thus far to support your opinion sort of makes it look like you don't know what you're talking about. If any of what you say is true, there would be facts to support your claims. That's sort of the way the world works.
Can you please post some facts?
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
Well there we have it, deforestation is actually good for animals according to CGN. Causing generations of damage to the ecosystem-only a Liberal would think thats bad.
Saying its outright great and saying its outright bad are both missing way too much nuance to take either position seriously. The idea that there are winners and losers and this varies temporally may be lost on both extremes.
Although I agree the counter to "there's too much logging" or "it degrades an ecosystem" being "wipe your ass with your hand then" is an excellent way to avoid real discussion and very intellectually lazy lol.
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Cutting down 600-1000 year old trees on the West Coast of Vancouver Island so some rich globalist in another part of the world can wipe his ass ...
Well, lets just say I think those trees deserve better, so yeah he or she can wipe their ass with their left hand !
To answer the question... clear cutting forests have increased the Black Bear population to where it is today (on Vancouver Island at least).
Good Hunting.
Rob
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- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
In my part of the interior there’s lots of logging and bears, clear cut as well as selective logging. Black and grizzly populations are doing well. I constantly see bear sign in the bush regardless of if I’m out working or recreating.
