I am thinking of buying a shotgun (never owned one before) so I was looking though the catalog and I was looking at the Reminton 870. My question is a 870 express is 359.95 and a 870 wingmaster is 739.95 so besides appearance ie synthetic vs. wood for example is an 870 an 870? I guess I am kinda cheap but untill I know if I like shotguns I would prefer cheap but at the same time I want some kind of quality.
Is it just cosmetic?
- Thread starter Thumper167
- Start date
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Hell no. Wingmasters are akin to Gods gift to Mankind when it comes to pump shotguns. Express' are similar to a steaming pile of ****.
I own a Wingmaster, my wife has an express. I can talk with some certainty about their quality.
I own a Wingmaster, my wife has an express. I can talk with some certainty about their quality.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Actually her dad bought it for her before I met her. After she used my Wingmaster, she insisted on getting her own. So I bought her one.
The wingmaster is nicer by a large margin by many accounts, and I haven't heard too may gripes about them.
The express has a cheap rust-prone finish (oops, the Remington brochure calls it matte-black anti-glare finish to keep the animals from seeing you
) which requires a quality gun oil to keep it in check (I use G96, and I don't worry about rust anymore) and isn't as smooth, built as well, or as refined as a wingmaster by most accounts. There have been some reports of rough chambers, ejection problems, etc.
Having said that, I have an express, and it works. Mine goes bang every time, just as a wingmaster would I'm sure, and for what I saved, I could buy another.
If you want an heirloom that's guaranteed to work and make you look good while shooting it, buy the wingmaster. If you want a gun you don't care if you beat around a bit, that will function perfectly (although perhaps a little rough around the edges) and that is reliable (unless you happen to get the lemon) get an express.
Mine's approximately 3 years old, I don't know if quality has deteriorated any since.
The express has a cheap rust-prone finish (oops, the Remington brochure calls it matte-black anti-glare finish to keep the animals from seeing you
) which requires a quality gun oil to keep it in check (I use G96, and I don't worry about rust anymore) and isn't as smooth, built as well, or as refined as a wingmaster by most accounts. There have been some reports of rough chambers, ejection problems, etc. Having said that, I have an express, and it works. Mine goes bang every time, just as a wingmaster would I'm sure, and for what I saved, I could buy another.
If you want an heirloom that's guaranteed to work and make you look good while shooting it, buy the wingmaster. If you want a gun you don't care if you beat around a bit, that will function perfectly (although perhaps a little rough around the edges) and that is reliable (unless you happen to get the lemon) get an express.
Mine's approximately 3 years old, I don't know if quality has deteriorated any since.
Do a search! There are lots of threads by those who have a sour taste!
The 870 express has a plastic trigger group, the fit and finish are poor at best and the wood is terrible, especially if its plastic.
Wingmasters especially the old "real" wingmasters, with that smooth as glass action, deep black bluing, a pretty piece of walnut and one of the most iconic sounds of 20th century, that is stuff real men's wet dreams are made of.
Wingmasters especially the old "real" wingmasters, with that smooth as glass action, deep black bluing, a pretty piece of walnut and one of the most iconic sounds of 20th century, that is stuff real men's wet dreams are made of.
Really? I will bow to your experience!
Thanks for the responces. From whats has been said I assume the actions are the same it is the finish is much lower than the wingmaster which I knew. From what is said it sounds like the actions are made with seconds? The parts that are not up to the wingmaster grade. So is it safe to say they shoot he same at least for awhile to see if I even like shooting a shotgun. At $350 in my younger days that was a good weekend at the bars lol. It was easy with handguns at the range there are some thing like 40 of them to try and i bought the ones I liked. If I like shooting a shotgun I am willing to put out for a better one I just don't want to spend a bunch and not like it. At the same time I want to give it a fair chance and not like it due to the gun.
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There are (or at least there used to be...perhaps someone can confirm) other differences besides finish. As was mentioned, the trigger group is plastic on the express, but also the wingmaster has two guide bars that run from the bolt to the pump, the express has only one. There is some other stuff as well, but these two are the biggies.
If you are budget concious, look at the (gasp) norinco HP9. Its a clone of the wingmaster, and has all of the same features (except the price tag and fancy finish). I have yet to read a bad review of that gun.
If you are budget concious, look at the (gasp) norinco HP9. Its a clone of the wingmaster, and has all of the same features (except the price tag and fancy finish). I have yet to read a bad review of that gun.
personally i dont care about the finish too much. if i take a shotgun hunting and it gets beat up a little, a wood stock looks alot worse for wear than a synthetic stock IMO.
I have a 870 express mag with 18" barrel for close in bear protection when i'm hunting and an 870 express super mag with 28" barrel for bird hunting. I have yet to have a malfunction thats not due to a dud round and I find the fit to be perfect to my size and body type. I'm just one guy, but I bought 2 shotguns that fit me perfectly and do exactly what i need them to for the price of one 'fancy' shotgun.
M
I have a 870 express mag with 18" barrel for close in bear protection when i'm hunting and an 870 express super mag with 28" barrel for bird hunting. I have yet to have a malfunction thats not due to a dud round and I find the fit to be perfect to my size and body type. I'm just one guy, but I bought 2 shotguns that fit me perfectly and do exactly what i need them to for the price of one 'fancy' shotgun.
M
Having owned both versions of the 870 and concluded that each is more than serviceable it comes down to choice and personal finances. Go to a store, examine both, work the actions a couple of times and then decide if the better fit and finish of the Wingmaster is worth the extra cost. The Wingmaster will be smoother out of the box. The Express will get that way through applied use.
This is absolutely true (I asked Him myself). Too bad He, and those who are prone to wet dreams, are so easily satisfied.
The Devil (demanding SOB that he is) prefers the first commercially viable pump, and still the best, the Winchester 1897. Look up "rugged" in the dictionary and you'll find a picture of a '97.
No slag on the 870 Wingmaster - it's about the best you could hope for when you're trying to copy the success of an indomitable design such as John Browning's 1897. You'll hear all kinds of emotional arguments about which is best but, the '97 was and still is the state of the art.
The reasons the Wingmaster is better than the Express are many. But, they all have the same cause - manufacturers were leaving no stone unturned in a headlong rush to cut costs. The 1897, the model 12, and the original Wingmaster were all demonstrably superior to anything made since 1970. Unfortunately, the market (us consumers) got stung by the price point bug. Somehow we were all dazzled by cheap, low quality consumer goods.
I, for one, am bucking this trend. Walmart running shoes last me about 3 weeks before they start falling apart. Cheap winter coats look like rags after one season. Cars, computers, everything is designed with "components" that are 'whole unit exchanged' rendering actual 'repair' a thing of the past and making it cheaper in many cases to throw an item away and replace it, than to fix it and continue enjoying it.
Quality as a concept has been so bastardized that it's come to be a measure of the chance of a product surviving to the end of the warranty rather than any measure of actual material longevity or workmanship.
I'm extremely critical of "advancements" in materials (although real progress does occur, most synthetics are merely cheaper, not better). I seldom buy new firearms and, when I do, I find that I get less for my money. All of my favorites are vintage guns.
Admittedly, this attitude is not for everyone. I don't hunt migratory, so the whole non-tox issue is irrelevant to me. I don't have a bias for or against choke tubes. Double guns with double triggers serve all my needs, provided they're choked F/M or appropriately for a specialized game (such as skeet or snipe hunting.).
Recommended reading on this subject: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig.
If you think this is merely a matter of personal preference, ask yourself why the States are in so much trouble. (Yes, profligate spending is a root cause. But, if they had received value for all that spending, rather than blowing it all on cheap Chinese junk, they'd have something to show for it. Exporting jobs to take advantage of cheap labor is a huge drain on the economy. Paying a premium to get highest available quality gets you really good stuff that lasts longer and actually costs LESS when the whole product lifecycle is taken into consideration.)
If you're after an 870, get a Wingmaster. It'll cost twice as much and work 4 times better the entire time you own it. You'll never live long enough to enjoy all of that extra longevity but, when you sell it, it'll fetch twice as much as the express (assuming the express is even worth buying by then). If you buy sh*t, then shut your yap when you have problems with it - you got what you paid for.
The actions are not the same or is the xpress made with seconds. The action and other parts of the firearm are made from different material and manuifactured in a different way. Some parts that should be cut or machined from solid steel are simply cast etc. etc.
Shooter_01
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Durham Region, Ontario
In fact, the Express has twin action bars as well. I own both and I much prefer my Wingmasters over my Express for many of the reasons stated above. Initially, I purchased the Express to be abused while duck hunting but, I`ve since changed my mind.
