Is it me or is it the gun??
- Thread starter GarDian
- Start date
Shooting at 7m, 50 shots group size are roughly 3.5"~4" square with about 3~4 flyers. Ammo is Federal American Eagle 115Gr.
Ok, thanks. Sounds like trigger error my friend. Dry fire like crazy.
I guess if I am using those targets, everyone at the range will be annoyed by it as I obviously can't hit straight.
you should be shooting from a rest, to ensure that you are consistently grouping your shots, at one point. Also making sure your sight picture is the same for each shot. For me, what works is shooting from 10 yards, on a bench, hands resting on a sand bag or other rest. The paper that Im shooting at has a small 1 or 2 inch black dot in the middle of the sheet. Front post (sight) is just touchng the bottom of the dot, (like a lollipop). Squeeze off a few rounds slowly and see when your shots are grouping. If front sight looks like its too far right like you stated, (over the center ) of the barrel, (that will also make your shots left) then it might need to be eased over to the center line. Then try again. But like some guys have suggested already, it usually is the shooter, so try off the bag first.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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It's the nature of the trigger that causes the low and to the left shots. The sear surface that holds back the striker has a ramp on it. As you squeeze on the trigger, this ramp pulls the striker further back against the tension of the spring before it releases the striker. In my hands, it feels like the pressure on the trigger has to gradually increase as it nears the point of abruptly releasing. This is what causes the point of aim to jerk low and to the left. I did a ton of dry firing exercises to eliminate this problem, but I finally got an Apex hard sear to replace the factory sear and it totally improved the feel of the trigger! I highly recommend this $40 upgrade!
WRONG
If you can't shoot any and all handguns with a reasonable level of proficiency, its you that sucks. Learn to shoot, that is SEEK PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. Running a gun that covers up your poor form is a pathetic excuse for marksmanship.
WRONG
The trigger has nothing to do with low left. Low left is a flinch. Poor trigger control regardless of the trigger style/shape/design won't help things any.
WRONG
Bullet weight/brand/style/shape/colour makes absolutely ZERO DIFFERENCE. Again, a poor marksman blames something as lame as his ammo, especially with a handgun.
TDC
TDC, I agree with your above statements, but, its been proven by several high level shooters (Hilton Yam, Todd Green) that the slow rate of twist and premature unlocking in the M&P barrel, will not group well at all with some of the lower grain 9mm rounds, often producing 6-8" groups at 25 yards. This however would not be the case for the OP, shooting low left is strictly a trigger control issue.
I'm aware of the barrel issues with early production M&P's. However, I doubt the OP has one of those early copies. The twist rate I call BS on. Most pistols are lucky if they impart a 1/4 turn before the bullet exits. Regardless, as long as some spin was induced the projectile will stabilize.
TDC
I will try that. By the way, any recommendation of a decent sand bag or shooting rest?? I am looking for one that will work for both pistol and rifles.
Dry firing seems to be super important with the m&p. slow deliberate dry firing, I would set snap cap on top
Of the barrel and practice until I could do it without it falling off, then I knew that I was pulling the triger properly. As stated above that it has nothing to do with the trigger, I feel that with the M&P it does have alot to do with it (in my limited experience, and having spoken to a few people who have had the same issue as I did with it). I also noticed that I had more positive experiences shooting 135 gr. and 147 gr. than I did anything else.
It just seems to take some practice.
Of the barrel and practice until I could do it without it falling off, then I knew that I was pulling the triger properly. As stated above that it has nothing to do with the trigger, I feel that with the M&P it does have alot to do with it (in my limited experience, and having spoken to a few people who have had the same issue as I did with it). I also noticed that I had more positive experiences shooting 135 gr. and 147 gr. than I did anything else.
It just seems to take some practice.
Dry fire is super important with any gun. Dry firing takes the distraction of recoil and noise out of the equation so you can focus on the technique and the visual feed-back that will help you learn to pull the trigger without disturbing the sights.
In a safe dry fire area, align your sights with the spot on the target you want to hit. While holding the sights in this alignment, practice drawing the trigger straight back until the striker releases. Pay very close attention to what the sights do as you do this and note if there is a sudden movement just before or during the trigger release. If the sights move at all (other than the natural wobble that is always present), you are deflecting the shot with your trigger technique. As and exercise, you can try narrowing your visual focus down to just the top edge of the front sight. This will help you diagnose small errors more easily. Focusing on keeping the sights aligned all the way through the trigger stroke will teach you very rapidly what a correct trigger technique feels like.
The type of gun or load is immaterial. Correct technique transports across all pistol platforms.
You can find dryfire drills on the net. Anything that eases the boredom is a good thing. Dryfire with a laser mounted and you will see every movement exaggerated. I used to play a game where I shot anything that had the shape of an "O" on my TV. You can legally take imaginary potshots at your favourite politicians this way too. My room was littered with cadavers during the elections.
Squeeze firmly with both hands. Shoot a group with the pad of your trigger finger and then shoot another group with the joint of the finger. When I use the joint, the group moves left. You might find your group will move right for you by using the finger pad.
Don't worry too much about where the group is forming. When you can shoot a good group (and not until then) you can adjust the sights to put the group where you want.
Here is a recent group I shot at 25 yards. I was pleased with it and then moved my rear sight a bit to centre it up.
Don't worry too much about where the group is forming. When you can shoot a good group (and not until then) you can adjust the sights to put the group where you want.
Here is a recent group I shot at 25 yards. I was pleased with it and then moved my rear sight a bit to centre it up.
Get formal training. Best thing you can do to become a proficient pistol shooter. 99% of people I see shooting a pistol need help in one form or another. To answer the question, it's you and not the gun.
Go slow, take your time, get use to recoil, noise and whatever you do stay consistant.
Like TDC said, hiding behind ammo or different pistols does nothing. A good shooter and pick up almost any pistol and be reasonably accurate as the fundamentals never change.
Go slow, take your time, get use to recoil, noise and whatever you do stay consistant.
Like TDC said, hiding behind ammo or different pistols does nothing. A good shooter and pick up almost any pistol and be reasonably accurate as the fundamentals never change.
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