Is it necessary to "Break in" a new gun

I think you should re-read some of the comments. It is not a total accuracy thing. A not broke in barrel is not going to be a sewer pipe vs one that was being a gem. That was not mentioned anywhere. The benefit is a case by case situation regarding fouling in relation to the surface of the bore after the manufacturing process. Every barrel comes out a little different, a high quality barrel maker will usually lap the bore to a nice smooth finish. Barrels like these often foul little to none with no break-in because there are virtually no small burrs stripping copper off the bullets causing fouling like a factory rifle. What this means is this bore will be able to fire many more rounds before a cleaning is needed. The barrels that can benefit from it are lower end as in factory or less expensive aftermarket. These barrels will show some degree of roughness in the bore that strips copper in those areas causing faster fouling. These bores will reach the point that accuracy starts to suffer due to copper fouling sooner than a nicely lapped bore. What "break-in" does is uses each bullet to help smooth out those burrs. Copper is stripped from the jacket as small amounts of steel are stripped from the burr. Removing all that copper lets the process continue for subsequent rounds. The difference? The last one I did showed significant copper fouling for the first few shots. By shot 6 or 7 it started to reduce greatly. By shot 10 copper fouling wasn't even comparable to shots 1-7. This was with a shoot 1, clean, shoot 1 clean regimen. What this did was to polish to some degree, the bore making a smoother surface. After 10 rds I stopped cleaning and fired two slow 5 shot groups keeping the rifle cool. I cleaned after that and haven't cleaned it much since. Copper fouling is very light and cleans up easy. Much easier than those first few shots. That was what I observed in my own rifle over the course of ten rounds. I saw a difference that made it worth it to me so I do it with all my rifles. The rifle would be fine if I hadn't. It would probably shoot the same. But I would spend a lot more time cleaning it on a more frequent basis. Keep in mind every rifle is different. Not every bore will benefit from it and the benefits are no landslide. Do what you want, but tangible results do not amount to a "myth" to me.

Slippery_Pete said:
@sheephunter: I couldn't find any comparison pictures, can you post a link? I have to add though that just because one barrel might appear smoother than the other, this is no evidence that it shoots better or worse than it would have if a break-in had not been done. It would take a large number of barrels from the same manufacturer, made with the same tools, some broken in and some just shot right away before any statistically significant trend could be observed.
Click to expand...
 
Slippery_Pete said:
How can anyone really know if there is any benefit to breaking in a barrel? All barrels are slightly different and there's no way to compare a barrel against itself with/without being broken in.

Unless there's some scientific evidence (and there doesn't seem to be any) that shows barrel break-in has an effect on performance, I'll consider it as much of a myth as it's good luck to not walk on the joints between sidewalk sections.

Oh, and I should mention that you must tap your rifle stock with your finger in a particular pattern to improve your odds of getting a deer this year.
Click to expand...

Go to Lilja's website and read what he has to say about 'breaking a barrel in" and the scientific facts on what happens. It is stated it quite well and he is well respected by all in the business.
 
Unless and until someone takes the time to test a huge number of barrels and subject them to identical conditions, randomly assign them to the break-in-not break-in category and have another group repeat the experiment and for good measure use a mixed bag of barrels that were and were not broken-in as a means of evaluating the results, barrel break in has never been objectively or scientifically proven. Unlikely anyone ever will take the time or money to do so. The problem is that no two barrels are the same, no two loads are the same and no two cartridges, bullets, primers, etc. etc. . There are far too many intrinsic variables to ever properly and quantitatively prove barrel break-in does/does-not work. As a result, you must make the decision based on intuitive belief, informed decision and the anecdotes of those with a strong opinion. I don't break-in barrels. As long as you aren't using my gun, I don't give a rat's arse whether you do or don't.
 
I think it's that huge variance in barrels that makes the case for break in.....the next one you get could be the one that needs it.
 
paperslayer said:
I don't break-in barrels. As long as you aren't using my gun, I don't give a rat's arse whether you do or don't.
Click to expand...

Did you read Lijas article on what occurs when you fire a round, on how copper is vaporized and deposited in the bore? Do you have an opinion about what he says?
 
guntech said:
Did you read Lijas article on what occurs when you fire a round, on how copper is vaporized and deposited in the bore? Do you have an opinion about what he says?
Click to expand...

I do, it's the whole fire a round clean, fire a round clean, that makes me roll my eyes. I'll buy that initially the state of the bore will cause an excessive amount of copper to build up double quick. The whole cycle described by most break in procedure's just seems like voodoo. Here's a break in procedure if you feel you must do it. Go to the range and zero and start working up a load. At the end of the range session go home take a good quality lunch baggie and throw it over the muzzle and wrap a good thick elastic band around it to seal it and keep it in place, take out the bolt and with the muzzle down fill the bore with CR-10 (or whatever), let sit for 10 - 15 min then swab her out. If a CR-10 soaked patch comes out blue at the end repeat. That should have most if not all copper out of the barrel without spending most of the first day at the range shoving a rod in and out of your tube. The only thing that makes any sense about the whole break in process is the idea that you get a premature build up of copper in the bore. I see no reason why you MUST get it all out after each of the first five, ten, or whatever shots assuming you get it clean before it becomes a problem. I've read the articles on this topic and the shot, clean, war dance, repeat will be no more effective then sitting in front of the tube later that eve giving the bore a good cleaning.

As someone already pointed out there has not been any study done on this topic to prove or disprove it. When your reading Lijas article your reading about his opinion and nothing more. There's a very big difference between what someone believes to be true and what is, expert or not...

Just to be clear I'm NOT an expert but I do wear my critical thinking cap most of the day.
 
Last edited:
I think the idea redshooter is that the copper deposits are stuck on rough spots and by removing them at the range between shots these rough spots will be re exposed and eventually lapped by shooting?
You'd think a high dollar barrel would be lapped and ready to go from the maker but I guess that's not the case......
One important thing for a shooter looking for high performance is to believe that his equipment and loads are the best they can be...... a break in ritual can get rid of doubts that some may have if they don't do it and this could give them an edge mentally.
 
I've heard that, but the most compelling argument was just that the throat needs to get "smoothed" out by the initial rounds fired, and that the excess copper deposited by the rough throat will cause excessive fouling the life of the rifle if not removed right away.

To be honest I'll agree that it's possible that by preventing an excessive build up early you'll have an easier time cleaning it later. I highly doubt that it will save me the time I wasted doing an initial long drawn out break in.
 
I used to have a real good borescope. After the first shot in a new (custom - not factory) barrel I could see bits of crap in the barrel. The 1 shot- clean technique wipes out this crap before the second shot. For those of you who have not done this, the amount of crap that comes out after that first shot is more like what normally comes out after a 100 round shooting session.

I fire 3 shots, doing the clean after each, the 2 clean, then 5 clean and then 10 clean. usually after the 10 shots the barrel clean gets almost no results. it no longer gets fouled.

In a discussion with Mr. Broughton (the barrel maker) about 20 years ago, he told me that if I fired a second shot in his nice custom barrel, without cleaning, the second bullet would iron in the crap, leaving little divots in the steel, and the barrel would always then foul more than if I had broken it in.

Blue barrels need more shots to break in than a stainless. They really benefit from the process.
 
redshooter said:
I do, it's the whole fire a round clean, fire a round clean, that makes me roll my eyes. I'll buy that initially the state of the bore will cause an excessive amount of copper to build up double quick. The whole cycle described by most break in procedure's just seems like voodoo. Here's a break in procedure if you feel you must do it. Go to the range and zero and start working up a load. At the end of the range session go home take a good quality lunch baggie and throw it over the muzzle and wrap a good thick elastic band around it to seal it and keep it in place, take out the bolt and with the muzzle down fill the bore with CR-10 (or whatever), let sit for 10 - 15 min then swab her out. If a CR-10 soaked patch comes out blue at the end repeat. That should have most if not all copper out of the barrel without spending most of the first day at the range shoving a rod in and out of your tube. The only thing that makes any sense about the whole break in process is the idea that you get a premature build up of copper in the bore. I see no reason why you MUST get it all out after each of the first five, ten, or whatever shots assuming you get it clean before it becomes a problem. I've read the articles on this topic and the shot, clean, war dance, repeat will be no more effective then sitting in front of the tube later that eve giving the bore a good cleaning.

As someone already pointed out there has not been any study done on this topic to prove or disprove it. When your reading Lijas article your reading about his opinion and nothing more. There's a very big difference between what someone believes to be true and what is, expert or not...

Just to be clear I'm NOT an expert but I do wear my critical thinking cap most of the day.
Click to expand...

I guess you didn't understand what Lilja was saying on why it is important to remove the copper while the barrel is breaking in...

And for those who think this takes a lot of shots - it doesn't. Quality match grade barrels only require about 5 or 6 break in shots if you do it properly... factory barrels - maybe never.
 
paperslayer said:
Unless and until someone takes the time to test a huge number of barrels and subject them to identical conditions, randomly assign them to the break-in-not break-in category and have another group repeat the experiment and for good measure use a mixed bag of barrels that were and were not broken-in as a means of evaluating the results, barrel break in has never been objectively or scientifically proven. Unlikely anyone ever will take the time or money to do so. The problem is that no two barrels are the same, no two loads are the same and no two cartridges, bullets, primers, etc. etc. . There are far too many intrinsic variables to ever properly and quantitatively prove barrel break-in does/does-not work. As a result, you must make the decision based on intuitive belief, informed decision and the anecdotes of those with a strong opinion. I don't break-in barrels. As long as you aren't using my gun, I don't give a rat's arse whether you do or don't.
Click to expand...

Break in is about preserving accuracy between cleanings; accuracy that will degrade at some point unless copper fouling is removed. Whats your point ?
 
From Hart Rifle barrels

What do you recommend for barrel break-in?
We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure, you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions.

We recommend using a brass brush with Hopp's #9 or Shooters Choice as often as possible. In sighting in a rifle or shooting benchrest groups, you should thoroughly brush after every 10-20 shots using a good coated cleaning rod and rod guide. Always leave a cleaner in bore after you are through shooting for the day. This will dissolve cooper fouling left in the barrel. The barrel should then be thoroughly dried out just before shooting.

Do not clean with stainless steel brushes or use abrasive cleaners in the barrels.

If Sweets is used, DO NOT leave in barrel for more than 5 minutes. DO NOT mix sweets with any other cleaner.
 
supernova said:
I think you should re-read some of the comments. It is not a total accuracy thing. A not broke in barrel is not going to be a sewer pipe vs one that was being a gem. That was not mentioned anywhere. The benefit is a case by case situation regarding fouling in relation to the surface of the bore after the manufacturing process. Every barrel comes out a little different, a high quality barrel maker will usually lap the bore to a nice smooth finish. Barrels like these often foul little to none with no break-in because there are virtually no small burrs stripping copper off the bullets causing fouling like a factory rifle. What this means is this bore will be able to fire many more rounds before a cleaning is needed. The barrels that can benefit from it are lower end as in factory or less expensive aftermarket. These barrels will show some degree of roughness in the bore that strips copper in those areas causing faster fouling. These bores will reach the point that accuracy starts to suffer due to copper fouling sooner than a nicely lapped bore. What "break-in" does is uses each bullet to help smooth out those burrs. Copper is stripped from the jacket as small amounts of steel are stripped from the burr. Removing all that copper lets the process continue for subsequent rounds. The difference? The last one I did showed significant copper fouling for the first few shots. By shot 6 or 7 it started to reduce greatly. By shot 10 copper fouling wasn't even comparable to shots 1-7. This was with a shoot 1, clean, shoot 1 clean regimen. What this did was to polish to some degree, the bore making a smoother surface. After 10 rds I stopped cleaning and fired two slow 5 shot groups keeping the rifle cool. I cleaned after that and haven't cleaned it much since. Copper fouling is very light and cleans up easy. Much easier than those first few shots. That was what I observed in my own rifle over the course of ten rounds. I saw a difference that made it worth it to me so I do it with all my rifles. The rifle would be fine if I hadn't. It would probably shoot the same. But I would spend a lot more time cleaning it on a more frequent basis. Keep in mind every rifle is different. Not every bore will benefit from it and the benefits are no landslide. Do what you want, but tangible results do not amount to a "myth" to me.
Click to expand...

Good info TKS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom