Is it time for me to leave the Tavor?

Keep the Tavor or replace it with something else

  • Sell the Tavor and replace it with 2x AR/VZ/T97

    Votes: 119 40.8%

  • Keep it, it's cool and not too many of them around.

    Votes: 173 59.2%
  • Total voters
    292
greentips said:
Sounds like it could be a training issue because the manual of arms for the Tavor is not as developed as the AR. 2400 round is a small round count and also, you may want to re-examine every single movement you do with this system and analyze the reason behind each failure.

The ar is definitely easier to figure out because there is a huge knowledge base outthere. If you are committed to a new system with a thinner knowledge base , you probably need to accept a steeper learning curve as you may have to develop solutions on your own.
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This. If you are an outlier as a person, and it sounds like you are, make it work. Think of the old timers that can make magic with a milsurp Enfield. You have done most of the preparatory stuff in the last 2400rnds. Hard work is never wasted.

A higher point total doesn't benefit you as an individual in pursuit of personal excellence.
 
I say make more room by buying another gun safe and keep the Tavor. Switch to your AR for competition.

In a SHTF situation why do you care if something is restricted or not? When things go that way there won't be cops running around busting people, the cops will be in the same scenario and fighting for their lives with everyone else.
My PWS AR is my SHTF go to gun and I'll have my Glock on my hip and all my mags will be rivetless.
 
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the_klenzer said:
... Counterpoint - I'm nearly out of room in my safe, so I couldn't buy 4x more VZs if I wanted to, so I could only replace the Tavor with 1, maybe 2 others.

So that brings me to this poll... What would you do if you were me?
1) Sell the Tavor and maybe get another VZ or AR as well as a T97 for the same money?
2) Keep the Tavor just because it's fricken cool, don't need the cash so why not... and just buy another of the other rifles for kicks anyway.
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I'm of the opinion that you should never sell a gun... you bought it for a reason. You're problem isn't that you need a different gun, and as cash doesn't appear to be an issue that you clearly need more room so should run right out and buy another safe:D
 
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greentips said:
Sounds like it could be a training issue because the manual of arms for the Tavor is not as developed as the AR. 2400 round is a small round count and also, you may want to re-examine every single movement you do with this system and analyze the reason behind each failure.

The ar is definitely easier to figure out because there is a huge knowledge base outthere. If you are committed to a new system with a thinner knowledge base , you probably need to accept a steeper learning curve as you may have to develop solutions on your own.
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I'm going to address this response specifically, because the training issue has been on my mind for a long while. The question I've posed myself is, if I trained equally on both platforms, which would I be better on? And I think the answer is the AR, mostly because I trained reasonably frequently (not as much this year unfortunately) on the Tavor (from dry mag changes at home to drills at the range - my overall round count is much higher over the last couple years since I bought it), and when I take the AR out with me (Noveske N4) I'm 95% as good/fast on it even though I only bring it out a handfull of times per year. So I imagine if I trained on it, I'd be significantly better than the Tavor.

Now, in defense of the Tavor... (this isn't directed at anyone and is just my opinion), 2 things:
1) it's not that the rifle is any slower than the AR platform, it's just that when you make mistakes, the mistakes are much more costly in terms of time to rectify.
2) I'd say that at least 90% of the problems I've had with it have been from running short LAR or .50 mags. Bullpups and short mags aren't made to be friends. But of course, that's the advantage I wouldn't want to give up for competition, so I'd prefer to go AR than run Pmags in a Tavor.
 
There's more to a SHTF rifle than having phenomenal mag change speeds. There's also the 99% of the time when you're just lugging it around and it's getting in the way. A bullpup is compact and stays out of the way nicely. If you trained with it and practiced with it in the wild (since it's NR), you might like it more for that use.
 
From a purely cold, statistical point of view and according to what you wrote and the fact that you do competition shootnig, i would definitely sell the Tavor and go for the VZ, because it seems to fit what YOU DO with firearms a lot more then the Tavor.
 
adriel said:
There's more to a SHTF rifle than having phenomenal mag change speeds. There's also the 99% of the time when you're just lugging it around and it's getting in the way. A bullpup is compact and stays out of the way nicely. If you trained with it and practiced with it in the wild (since it's NR), you might like it more for that use.
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The only time a SHTF rifle really matters is when you're using it to defend yourself. How it carries is a moot point if you cant run it effectively and efficiently for the role it is intended for.

TDC
 
I just got to add that if its good enough for the IDF as a literal SHTF rifle(SHTF there almost everyday) then its good enough for the rest of us lol. That military is in almost constant conflict and even though they field M16/M4's they still decided they needed something that fits them better. Why would they decide to spend the millions and millions on R and D and refitting their troops if the M4 was good enough? I think you should stick with the Tavor,you have the best of both worlds.Its compact enough for CQB situations and has the barrel length to reach out farther then a SBR AR would. This is all based off a SHTF rifle situation though. For competition i say go with whatever you are more comfortable with but i wouldn't sell my Tavor and i wouldn't take a VZ over a Tavor for SHTF. JMO of course.
 
If you choose the AR as your primary SHTF rifle, the Tavor makes a killer backup for your wife/ buddy/ neighbour/ self... shares the same mags and travels well.
 
K1ng C said:
I just got to add that if its good enough for the IDF as a literal SHTF rifle(SHTF there almost everyday) then its good enough for the rest of us lol. That military is in almost constant conflict and even though they field M16/M4's they still decided they needed something that fits them better. Why would they decide to spend the millions and millions on R and D and refitting their troops if the M4 was good enough? I think you should stick with the Tavor,you have the best of both worlds.Its compact enough for CQB situations and has the barrel length to reach out farther then a SBR AR would. This is all based off a SHTF rifle situation though. For competition i say go with whatever you are more comfortable with but i wouldn't sell my Tavor and i wouldn't take a VZ over a Tavor for SHTF. JMO of course.
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Israel has a conscript army in low intensity conflict against enemies that are pretty much straight off the short bus.

If the Tavor had any serious advantage over a quality AR, you know who WOULD go for it? Every first-world SF unit with discretionary funding and control over its small arms. How many of them are fielding anything BUT an AR platform? Almost none.

How many are fielding the Tavor? Absolutely none. Even Israel gives M4s to its SF. The only SF units I can think of that I have ever heard of getting the Tavor were Indian.

You know what India is currently buying for their SF? Colt M4s.

Food for thought IMO.
 
You've answered the question pretty clearly yourself.

There's a reason you're the only guy running a Tavor.
'Everyone else figured out the Tavor isn't the best gun out there for competition.

And besides... Have you ever really seen a cheerleader "run" in a slasher flic..?

All they do is stumble and trip
 
I would keep the Tavor, if we're talking SHTF then it would be a no brainer for me, a bullpup is so portable and compact while maintaining a long barrel. Competition maybe not as much. But if you want I'll trade you my CZ858 for your Tavor :)
 
ChrisAlston said:
I would keep the Tavor, if we're talking SHTF then it would be a no brainer for me, a bullpup is so portable and compact while maintaining a long barrel. Competition maybe not as much. But if you want I'll trade you my CZ858 for your Tavor :)
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Portability has nothing to do with overall size, its about weight. The increased length of an AR with 16" barrel is minimal. If you aren't kicking doors you won't see much benefit in a smaller package. As for velocity, you can maintain almost 90% the velocity of an 18" barrel in an 11" barrel.

Tdc
 
Well this is one of those threads that will drive lots of discussion so here is my 2 cents.

I bought my first autoloader rifle in 1978 so I have had a bit of ownership experience in regards to these types of firearms as well.

Some of the rifles are:

M1 Carbine 30 cal
Mini 14 .223
SP1 AR15 .223
Chinese SKS D 7.62X39
Russian SKS " "
Type 56 AK .223
M1A .308
M1A Shorty .308
CAR15 5.56

I love the Bullpup design but when I have handled them they all just feel ackward. What I mean is the safety, mag release, and charging all seem to require unnatural movement....

The rifles I listed above all have the same challenge except for the CAR 15. The CAR just feels right, shoulder, hand, sight picture, no rocking a mag into the gun, no reaching up to charge the weapon, just please the mag release, slide in a mag, press the bolt release, away you go!!!

I do love the new designs but would I choose one for a SHTF grab and go gun. nope. Would I choose a .308, a 7.62x39, nope.

A 5.56, yup.

Why, simple it takes the same ammo our Forces use. Factor lower recoil, faster on target shot placement, flat shooting, carrying more ammo and mags it just makes sense. Did I mention I also have a CMMG rimfire kit drop in conversion? Yup why would I want to use loud overpowered centerfire ammo for small game and besides rimfire is quiet compared a centerfire round. Ever think how much rimfire ammo you can carry? Ever think what good a 7.62 does you when you run out of ammo? Would rather use a club or a rimfire if you were out of the big stuff. Ever think where you get spare parts from? Ever think how common AR parts are?

I am down to my CAR 15 now, why? It has never jammed, is balls accurate (I only shoot to 100 yards as seriously most shooting will be 7 to 100 yards anymore you semi is going to drop from your hands thanks to a bolt action way out there).

Practise doing double taps, mag changes, charging, sight picture, and the AR will be it.

Lots to think about here but really do some thinking and try to resist doing the hip in thing as if you are in a SHTF scenario you better be good with your weapon.

Randy
 
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