Is it time for me to leave the Tavor?

[ChrisAlston]

Only about 300 rnds or so, notice I said "was" reliable as in it ran flawlessly for the time I owned it. Time will tell about their long term reliability/durability.

 

[Dick Proenneke]

I have owned four Tavor's now from each iteration and many AR's. I badly want the Tavor to be as capable as an AR, and I've spent my hard earned money on that goal, however at the end of the day, and with thousands or rounds down range , my findings are that it is not. If the AR was NR, there would not be a Tavor, XCR, SA, etc, market in Canada, except for the elite collector market. I have owned them all. Too many arguments, and practical realities, to support my statement, but there is a reason people shoot the AR in 3 gun in Canada, even though it is restricted.

 

[CanadianReich]

keep the tavor


train more with the vz c858 during non competitions for your sHTF preps


train more with the ar15 for actual competions


let the tavor get dusty for several months until you want to play with it again

 

[D_]

Huh and confuse yourself completely? I thought you atas guys are hardcore for repetition?

 

[Shin_Gunto]

The Tavor is fun to shoot and unique (I love mine for this reason only), but suffers the same short comings inherent of all bullpup's, it's design concept.

The AR-15 is hands down the better platform, and the greatest military rifle design ever devised. You can talk all day about accuracy, ballistics, OAL, etc; but the only thing that separates the AR-15 from every other rifle, is modularity. The ability to give the operator infinite configurations to solve issues related to ergonomics, sights, optics, comfort, illumination, etc; was/is game changing. Investing in a good quality AR, configured to your liking as a shooter, is the best black rifle purchase you can make, IMO.

Having used the AR platform in combat, I would trust no other rifle with my life. Having run drills and dumping 3000+ rounds with the Tavor, I find it more of a novelty, an expensive one at that. Perhaps novelty is not quite a fair description when things like the joke T97 exist, but as much as I want to "believe" the Tavor is on par with the AR, it simple is not.

Sell the Tavor and get a top of line AR.

 

[cr5]

WOW!
This thread has really gone sideways.

Hate to agree with TDC but he's right about the AR over bullpups. I own 3 AR's, an RFB, and have shot the Tavor. The AR is a much better platform as a fighting rifle. That doesn't mean I don't like bullpups but I can honestly say that if I had to defend my life of the lives of those I love I would go for my 12.5 inch AR before all the other rifles in my collection.

Can we try to get this back on track?
Start a new thread if you wanna argue which one is better and talk about ballistics.
Just because you own something and like it doesn't make it the best. It's great you like what you bought and that you enjoy it and can use it but that doesn't make it better.

If the sh!t ever does hit the fan I will gladly team up with guys with bullpups of any kind as well as any other semi auto mag fed rifle as long as they bring their own ammo and gear. I have a place outside the city (not too far) and will take in anyone who can contribute to the group. Strength in numbers.

As for the comments about the FEMA camps back on page 10 or 11, better wake up. They aren't only in the US and I'm not bat-sh!t crazy. There is a lot going on that not many know about. We are not isolated from the events unfolding South of our border.
Search youtube and start looking. Of course you need to take most of them with a grain of salt (sometimes a bag of salt) but there is a lot of info to be found regarding the future of or continent. I only wish I knew when it was going to happen.

I've already said it but to the OP, keep the Tavor and just make more room by buying another safe. Train and compete with the AR and keep the Tavor for having fun and playing with away from the range.

 

[TDC]

I haven't gone past 250 yards yet. I can constantly hit a 8" gong at that distance with ease, I'm sure I can do it further out. But I haven't tried yet.
I know AR's are accurate to 500 yards and beyond. Even with the shorter barrels. I'm more referring to the energy the bullet carries, not whether it can be accurate.

And to answer your earlier question. Yes I have shot AR's

Maybe you have a lemon. I have shot a TAVOR at the 500 yard line with a 4MOA Aimpont H1 at Fig 11 on 4 ft frame. It is effective in keeping all the shots on the upper half of the fig 11 and most of the shots would be within the 4 inner circle.

Based on what Beltfed has experienced the Tavor isn't capable of 500 yards, which is pushing the performance of the cartridge, in fact your Tavor is ineffective beyond 150 yards as the critical velocity is no longer there. Regardless, the long barrel advantage isn't worth a pinch of sh*t if you can't hit the target. Based on Greentips' experience with a Tavor, he can hit the top half of a figure 11 target at 500. That target measures 44"x17" so the upper half will be 22"x17". So the MOA of that target at 500 is 4.4MOA x 3.4MOA. So the Tavor is only a 3.4 MOA gun at best at 500 yards.

Thanks again for yet another long winded post. Barrel length isn't the only advantage a bullpup has over an AR.
Here is why I prefer the Tavor over the AR
It has a better balance. I can hold my rifle up longer without getting tired.
I personally prefer the ergonomics. I've spent way more time with the Tavor than with an AR. So naturally I'm more a custom to the ergos.
As TDC has stated, the ballistics are better out of a longer barrel. Compared to a AR of equal OAL you'll have better long range performance out of the Tavor.
I find it quicker to move from target to target than a conventional rifle.
You disagree? That's fine. You can wright as many short stories as you want till your blue in the fingertips. It will never change the fact that I'm a better shooter with the Tavor. And that's all I care about. Your obviously emotionally invested in your rifle, so I see no point on continuing this argument.
Have a nice life

You missed a few spots. another "an" not "a", its "write" not "wright" that's a name. "till" is not a word, its "until". Its "you're" not "your" and I think you meant "in" not "on".

What you prefer for ergonomics and what is factually proven as faster and more ergonomic is different. Your preference for the Tavor ergonomics is your preference, it is not fact. You say you can drive the Tavor faster than an AR, is again your opinion and experience not fact. No doubt you can keep the rifle mounted for longer, but the question is, why are you mounting the rifle for such a period of time? Mount, take the shot, move on. The issue isn't design, its tactics based. Shoot, or seek a better position before you fatigue. If you need to keep the rifle mounted for extended periods of time due to missed shots, its you who needs work not the system being employed.


TDC

 

[TDC]

@TDC

I've mounted a light on the T97. A Magpul rail section bolts right on through the ventilation holes in the upper handguard. You can mount these rails on both sides. The controls certainly aren't ergonomically located, but it doesn't stop a competent person from using the rifle very effectively. An ambi mag release will be available soon to fix the mag release. As for optics who cares, I didn't buy it to mount optics, and the iron sights work just fine as I've said like three times now. Bottom line, the T97 was really just a test run for me to see if I like bullpups. Turns out I do. A lot. So I've sold the T97 and ordered a Tavor. I still think the T97 is a great rifle. It's short, handles and balances beautifully, was reliable, takes AR mags, and is non restricted for a decent price.
Now onto the Tavor, frankly your anti bullpup trolling is just getting me more excited to get my Tavor, so keep on calling everything you don't like pieces of sh*t to your little heart's content.

How bad is the barrel shadow from your mounted light, I bet its significant.

You admit the controls are poorly placed yet somehow you believe they're workable??

An ambi mag release is being worked on. So the rifle again is not ergonomic and isn't even ambi. Very modern design.

Irons are usable, but they'll never be as fast or accurate as optics, and they don't work at night. So much for cutting edge design.

TDC

 

[DoubleA]

If the AR was NR, there would not be a Tavor, XCR, SA, etc, market in Canada, except for the elite collector market.

I have to agree with this statement. But a Sudanese-contract AR-10 would be pretty goddamn sweet as well.

 

[IchBinEinSniper]

There will always be a market for these other rifles...they weren't specifically made for Canada with the exception of the barrel length. The US has free reign on AR ownership and the market is still flush with alternatives....

 

[barrett50cal]

You missed a few spots. another "an" not "a", its "write" not "wright" that's a name. "till" is not a word, its "until". Its "you're" not "your" and I think you meant "in" not "on".
TDC

Probably shouldn't stick my nose into this conversation, but couldn't help noticing: it's "it's" not "its"................ just sayin'................

 

[IchBinEinSniper]

Oh, and TDC isn't as convincing as he thinks...I watched the video below and found the presenter far more persuasive

 

[IchBinEinSniper]

Probably shouldn't stick my nose into this conversation, but couldn't help noticing: it's "it's" not "its"................ just sayin'................

I might have a very dirty mind...but at first glance all I see are a bunch of (.)(.) 's...then I notice that there are less t's in that sentence then my initial scan led me to believe.

 

[TV-PressPass]

that video . . .

my ears . . .

 

[Madmardigan]

Based on what Beltfed has experienced the Tavor isn't capable of 500 yards, which is pushing the performance of the cartridge, in fact your Tavor is ineffective beyond 150 yards as the critical velocity is no longer there. Regardless, the long barrel advantage isn't worth a pinch of sh*t if you can't hit the target. Based on Greentips' experience with a Tavor, he can hit the top half of a figure 11 target at 500. That target measures 44"x17" so the upper half will be 22"x17". So the MOA of that target at 500 is 4.4MOA x 3.4MOA. So the Tavor is only a 3.4 MOA gun at best at 500 yards.



You missed a few spots. another "an" not "a", its "write" not "wright" that's a name. "till" is not a word, its "until". Its "you're" not "your" and I think you meant "in" not "on".

What you prefer for ergonomics and what is factually proven as faster and more ergonomic is different. Your preference for the Tavor ergonomics is your preference, it is not fact. You say you can drive the Tavor faster than an AR, is again your opinion and experience not fact. No doubt you can keep the rifle mounted for longer, but the question is, why are you mounting the rifle for such a period of time? Mount, take the shot, move on. The issue isn't design, its tactics based. Shoot, or seek a better position before you fatigue. If you need to keep the rifle mounted for extended periods of time due to missed shots, its you who needs work not the system being employed.


TDC

It's, it's, not its. I have a hard time taking your seriously seeing as how you can't use proper punctuation. You know there is a spell check right?

 

[andrew3081]

I have owned four Tavor's now from each iteration and many AR's. I badly want the Tavor to be as capable as an AR, and I've spent my hard earned money on that goal, however at the end of the day, and with thousands or rounds down range , my findings are that it is not. If the AR was NR, there would not be a Tavor, XCR, SA, etc, market in Canada, except for the elite collector market. I have owned them all. Too many arguments, and practical realities, to support my statement, but there is a reason people shoot the AR in 3 gun in Canada, even though it is restricted.

Tavors are very popular in USA?

How can you predict that there will be no market for the tavor in Canada if Ar15 is non restricted?
Just look at the States.

How?

It's pretty easy to do a shoulder transition on an ar as well, what's your point?

You said earlier that 'so what if you need to do a shoulder transition?'
I replied to your 'question' and said that tavors can do shoulder transition as fast and as easy as an Ar15. That's my point.

Same request, please elaborate how the Tavor is more ambi than the AR?

TDC

For Ar15, you need to get a new upper receiver, different bolt carrier group etc to make it left hand friendly.
For Tavor...all you need is a left hand bolt.

 

[beltfed]

Maybe you have a lemon. I have shot a TAVOR at the 500 yard line with a 4MOA Aimpont H1 at Fig 11 on 4 ft frame. It is effective in keeping all the shots on the upper half of the fig 11 and most of the shots would be within the 4 inner circle.

You could be right...it was one of the first 'through the door' as it were...since long gone.
I'll likely own another just to piss off TDC.
I'll make sure to bring it out to a three gun that he enters and kick his AR toting a$$ with it too....

 

[Shooter1of38]

Oh, and TDC isn't as convincing as he thinks...I watched the video below and found the presenter far more persuasive

Ahhh. She scratched the door. Now she needs to call a man!

 

[capp325]

When I was first getting into shooting about 10-12 years ago, "tacticool" AR's were just becoming all the rage. Back then, the typical narrative on gun-related forums was that the AR was an unreliable piece of crap. Countless GI's have lost their lives in Vietnam when their M16's jammed. And when the gun didn't malfunction, the 5.56 mm round that it discharged was so laughably ineffective, it couldn't stop a squirrel, let alone an enraged commie hell-bent on destroying freedom. Mot of these stories were perpetuated by people who had never fought in Vietnam and had limited, if any, experience with the AR platform.

Now that the bullpup concept is gaining popularity and starting to replace the traditional rifle, the AR has suddenly morphed into a paragon of reliability. Meanwhile, untold numbers of Brits, Australians and others are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan because magazine changes take 0.005 seconds longer with their bullpups. Or so the Internet would have you believe.

 

[00aught]

Probably shouldn't stick my nose into this conversation, but couldn't help noticing: it's "it's" not "its"................ just sayin'................

Haha!! You just made my day!