Is it time for me to leave the Tavor?

[Madmardigan]

 

[ztunelover]

Cmon if you are gonna put that pic in put in a pic of a hk416.

Here is Jean Claude Van Damme doing an epic split.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10

 

[TDC]

With some practice you can change mags really fast:

Can't get it through your heads. This guy is running "slick" that is NO GEAR AND NO HEAVY CLOTHING, from a static offhand position. Change these variables and get back to us. Oh, and he is in fact running a left hand converted Tavor. If brass ejection isn't an issue, why do they offer left hand bolts?

why this continued left hand debate? so what if it doesn't work for a minority, the majority of people in this world are right handed last time I checked and by a large margin.

Can the OP just sell the stupid thing already so this thread can die?

Clearly you've never fired from your support side shoulder so you wouldn't understand the need for an ambi rifle. I agree that most folks are right handed, but a design that isn't capable by both right and left handed users is not exactly advanced or cutting edge.

TDC

 

[TDC]

With some practice you can change mags really fast:

Now that is some funny stuff!

TDC

 

[Daver_II]

OK! The Tavor is not your favourite gun... Get on with your life!!!

 

[TDC]

OK! The Tavor is not your favourite gun... Get on with your life!!!

Nothing to do with my favorite, as I don't have one. Its about people perpetuating myth as opposed to fact. The fact remains, the Tavor offers near zero advantages over an AR, the biggest being "a longer barrel in a smaller package" and its non-res in Canada. As posted before, if the AR were non-res like in a free country, there wouldn't be a discussion.

TDC

 

[TV-PressPass]

Nothing to do with my favorite, as I don't have one. Its about people perpetuating myth as opposed to fact. The fact remains, the Tavor offers near zero advantages over an AR, the biggest being "a longer barrel in a smaller package" and its non-res in Canada. As posted before, if the AR were non-res like in a free country, there wouldn't be a discussion.

 

[Brian46]

Clearly you've never fired from your support side shoulder so you wouldn't understand the need for an ambi rifle. I agree that most folks are right handed, but a design that isn't capable by both right and left handed users is not exactly advanced or cutting edge.

TDC

and an ar is closer to being full ambi with no parts interchange and you dont get hit with hot brass?

obv if it was a life or death scenario I would fire it any way I could but it is not an ideal thing to be doing.

 

[Brian46]

Nothing to do with my favorite, as I don't have one. Its about people perpetuating myth as opposed to fact. The fact remains, the Tavor offers near zero advantages over an AR, the biggest being "a longer barrel in a smaller package" and its non-res in Canada. As posted before, if the AR were non-res like in a free country, there wouldn't be a discussion.

TDC

so really you are upset that this is not a free country, I get it now.

 

[00aught]

Reading everything TDC says really makes me want a tavor. Not even joking lol

 

[swissinn]

Ok here is a schit disturbing question. Tavor or Swiss Arms( before all of this possible reclass BS). They are close in price right? And both NR

 

[Crumlin]

Forget the reclassification
Both are great rifles
Didn't have a problem with either
It's a personal preference of which platform you like better

 

[swissinn]

Forget the reclassification
Both are great rifles
Didn't have a problem with either
It's a personal preference of which platform you prefer

You SOB!!

 

[TDC]

and an ar is closer to being full ambi with no parts interchange and you dont get hit with hot brass?

obv if it was a life or death scenario I would fire it any way I could but it is not an ideal thing to be doing.

You obviously don't compete or train either then. I agree that its something to deal with if the life or death need arises. However, its still a self induced(as in design based) problem that is not offset by the one advantage the bullpup offers, and as mentioned, that advantage has been mitigated by both better ammunition and better shot placement.

so really you are upset that this is not a free country, I get it now.

Aren't you??

Reading everything TDC says really makes me want a tavor. Not even joking lol

This is no surprise, coming from the guy who doesn't own any restricted firearms and is without a license. By your own omission in other threads you don't know much about any firearms, so its probably safe to say you've never competed or trained either. Its ok, you don't know what you don't know. It will be an expensive lesson...

TDC

 

[TDC]

No one is shoving the Tavor down anyone's throat. Those of us that own them are just tired of reading the same Internet myths over and over. Bullpups have come along another generation. A lot of the weaknesses that are portrayed as fact were for bullpups designed 20 years ago. Even then some of it wasn't accurate.

Full ambi bullpup? PS90 comes to mind. RFB, FS2000 and the Tavor can be adjusted for left hand only use. Oh and yes you can shoot it weak side without eating brass along with a decent cheek weld. Plus fixed LOP. The back is flat and allows a fair amount of adjustment. Proper eye relief? Not a problem. Especially if you use a decent scope that doesn't change a lot when adjusting magnification or use a holo, red dot etc.

I only own one Tavor. I currently own 11 AR based rifles. Split between AR15 and AR10. Yes I really like the AR for all the reasons mentioned. But you don't see me selling my Tavor. If it was as some on here have described then I wouldn't own one. As I mentioned a lot of the weaknesses mentioned aren't as previously thought. It's an excellent all around good at most but specialized at nothing firearm. I really like mine and am only posting to try and get rid of some of the myths. The mag changes being the most common. I've even seen this in a store. That was until I demonstrated the trigger finger thumb metod of hitting the release. Then the light bulb went on.

Missed your post.

PS90 is a joke and is not fielded in any significant numbers, its a dead horse. The RFB is no different, as no one is fielding them other than bullpup fanboys. The FS2000 is yet another bullpup that hasn't taken off and suffers the same problems as all bullpups and couple others that are unique to the FN. Sure its ambi, but it still has a fixed LOP, poor mounting options for accessories and a high offset. The Viewing port atop the receiver is a dumb design and unfortunately necessary when clearing the firearm, and the safety/selector inside the trigger guard is a stupid idea.

The eye relief issues are a problem with smaller statured shooters with or without heavy clothing and gear. I understand that most bullpup users here are not wearing bulky clothing, gear, or are of smaller stature. These facts do not negate the reality that bullpups are not a one size fits most/all rifle like a conventional design with an adjustable LOP. The offset is a fixed problem, it can't be changed. Same goes for the lack of "rail estate" and poor mounting positions.

On a side note, I find it interesting that there are so many bullpup fans, but none of them ever says a word about the minimal sight radius that is characteristic of all bullpup designs. I guess the cool factor supersedes the importance of sight radius. Personally I don't think the reduced radius is that much of an issue on any firearm, but its interesting how those who invest in sight radius have yet to complain about it on a bullpup.

TDC

 

[andrew3081]

Nothing to do with my favorite, as I don't have one. Its about people perpetuating myth as opposed to fact. The fact remains, the Tavor offers near zero advantages over an AR, the biggest being "a longer barrel in a smaller package" and its non-res in Canada. As posted before, if the AR were non-res like in a free country, there wouldn't be a discussion.

TDC

Funny statement to say that Tavor has no advantage over Ar15.
A longer barrel in a smaller package and non restricted is not an advantage?

So what's so good about Ar15 compare to a Tavor?
I own both Ar15 and tavor and they are both good guns...they both have their advantage and disadvantages.

You cannot acquire a proper cheek weld from the left shoulder with a bullpup. Taking brass in the face is far from ideal. So with the only advantage of a bullpup being "longer barrel in a shorter package" you've introduced several other problems that were solved decades ago, like ambi use.

As for the Ar comment, you'd be plain wrong. There is no need to change anything on an AR to run it as a lefty. The brass deflector solves the issue that the Tavor and other bullpups can't, and the controls are usable for a lefty. The simple fact that you people fail to accept is that an AR can be used and/or transitioned from shoulder to shoulder, right hand shooter to left hand shooter WITHOUT ADDITIONAL PARTS.



TDC

I can shoulder my tavor from left to right and right to left when firing. WHAT?

 

[00aught]

You obviously don't compete or train either then. I agree that its something to deal with if the life or death need arises. However, its still a self induced(as in design based) problem that is not offset by the one advantage the bullpup offers, and as mentioned, that advantage has been mitigated by both better ammunition and better shot placement.



Aren't you??



This is no surprise, coming from the guy who doesn't own any restricted firearms and is without a license. By your own omission in other threads you don't know much about any firearms, so its probably safe to say you've never competed or trained either. Its ok, you don't know what you don't know. It will be an expensive lesson...

TDC

I think an expensive lesson would be buying a firearm I could ony use at the range. Tavor would be a multi purpose rifle for me, range, competing, training, hunting coyotes and having fun in the bush. I'm not a baby I can handle some brass in the mouth every once in a while if I choose to buy .223 and have to shoot of my left shoulder. And I never said I don't know anything about ANY firearms. I just don't know as much as someone who's been shooting for 20 years. And I ask questions... That's part of what this forum is for.

 

[Epoxy7]

Missed your post.

PS90 is a joke and is not fielded in any significant numbers, its a dead horse. The RFB is no different, as no one is fielding them other than bullpup fanboys. The FS2000 is yet another bullpup that hasn't taken off and suffers the same problems as all bullpups and couple others that are unique to the FN. Sure its ambi, but it still has a fixed LOP, poor mounting options for accessories and a high offset. The Viewing port atop the receiver is a dumb design and unfortunately necessary when clearing the firearm, and the safety/selector inside the trigger guard is a stupid idea.

The eye relief issues are a problem with smaller statured shooters with or without heavy clothing and gear. I understand that most bullpup users here are not wearing bulky clothing, gear, or are of smaller stature. These facts do not negate the reality that bullpups are not a one size fits most/all rifle like a conventional design with an adjustable LOP. The offset is a fixed problem, it can't be changed. Same goes for the lack of "rail estate" and poor mounting positions.

On a side note, I find it interesting that there are so many bullpup fans, but none of them ever says a word about the minimal sight radius that is characteristic of all bullpup designs. I guess the cool factor supersedes the importance of sight radius. Personally I don't think the reduced radius is that much of an issue on any firearm, but its interesting how those who invest in sight radius have yet to complain about it on a bullpup.

TDC

The P90 will never be fielded in large numbers. It's a specialized weapon. I know a few police forces use it and have heard JTF2 has used them (can't confirm) I would love to have and shoot a full auto P90 with 50 round mag. The PS90 is a great firearm for enthusiasts. No recoil, great controls and just a neat firearm. Fully ambi. Love the way the charging handle and safety work. Take down is cool too.

The RFB is a sporting rifle. I have a pretty good collection of semi auto 30 calibre. The RFB is half the height. It's the same size as a Tavor only in 308!! That being said the Tavor is the better firearm.

I haven't noticed any eye relief problems or issues with LOP. First off the Tavor is 5.56 so recoil isn't an issue. LOP isn't as critical with less recoil. Yes I've shot mine with work soft body armor. No Issues. If you're extremely small or extremely large then I could see it. That is an advantage of the AR system. But for most of us it's not even a consideration.

I gather you're talking about the T97 with sight radius. As the others will likely be scoped or red dot/Holo. The T97 has a proprietey rail designed for a scope. The iron sights seem to only be for short and medium distance. Unless planning on shooting long distance iron sights then it's not really a consideration these days with optics and red dot sights.

Bottom line. They are fun to shoot. The Tavor is starting to make even die hard anti bullpup people take a second look. I like them. But again the AR is a favourite of mine too. As much as I like the AR I sure wouldn't look down on a Tavor. In 5 years they may be a lot more common than now. Especially with the US now having a comercial version.

 

[ztunelover]

The P90 will never be fielded in large numbers. It's a specialized weapon. I know a few police forces use it and have heard JTF2 has used them (can't confirm) I would love to have and shoot a full auto P90 with 50 round mag. The PS90 is a great firearm for enthusiasts. No recoil, great controls and just a neat firearm. Fully ambi. Love the way the charging handle and safety work. Take down is cool too.

The RFB is a sporting rifle. I have a pretty good collection of semi auto 30 calibre. The RFB is half the height. It's the same size as a Tavor only in 308!! That being said the Tavor is the better firearm.

I haven't noticed any eye relief problems or issues with LOP. First off the Tavor is 5.56 so recoil isn't an issue. LOP isn't as critical with less recoil. Yes I've shot mine with work soft body armor. No Issues. If you're extremely small or extremely large then I could see it. That is an advantage of the AR system. But for most of us it's not even a consideration.

I gather you're talking about the T97 with sight radius. As the others will likely be scoped or red dot/Holo. The T97 has a proprietey rail designed for a scope. The iron sights seem to only be for short and medium distance. Unless planning on shooting long distance iron sights then it's not really a consideration these days with optics and red dot sights.

Bottom line. They are fun to shoot. The Tavor is starting to make even die hard anti bullpup people take a second look. I like them. But again the AR is a favourite of mine too. As much as I like the AR I sure wouldn't look down on a Tavor. In 5 years they may be a lot more common than now. Especially with the US now having a comercial version.

It's like cream puff. I shot one at vegas in full fun. I only have 2 problems with the fn5.7/hk4.6 cartridges. They are really hard to find, and stupidly expensive when you do find one, and fn products maybe of good quality, but finding spare parts & magazines for it will be a bi*ch. If you don't shoot a lot then that's a non issue I guess. I like to shoot a reasonable volume so it is a concern for me. The other thing that stops me from purchasing a ps90 is the insane cost of the damn things. They are so expensive, restricted or non. To me it is a super fun gopher gun, it would be a ton of fun to run around on the field putting the little critters down. If you look online at Doc KGR postings those pdw 5.7/4.6 cartridges are really inefficient manstoppers. Hence why the pdw rage has pretty much died out so fast. So I wouldn't recommend it for home defense.

The RFB is a solid concept. A compact semi auto hunting rifle. I like the idea, but I think they slightly kiboshed that idea. It has too many issues, and seeing how long it has been available on the market these issues with certain mags not working and the gas system requiring tuning should have been sorted out already.

The T97s iron sights shortcomings is far from it's most serious drawback.

 

[angrysoldier]

There are 5 only p90's that have been paid for for military/goverment use. That is from the horses mouth. Who uses them? You or I will never be told.