I have been enjoying a 1940 Mosin-nagant and with a few tricks managed to get decent groupings.....sometimes. PRVI, 150g, SP gave me 2 1/2" groups at 100 yards. A few months later I buy the exact same ammo and I get 12" groupings, 1 foot low and 1 foot to the left and the holes indicate that ammo is rotating....the base of the bullet is striking high and the tip low giving me a nice oval hole. I than tried MFS, 180g, SP and the group was tighter but now 1 foot with low with the bullet still rotating. Next was MFS, 200g, SP and it shot 2 1/2" group with perfect little round holes. I cannot see that kind of discrepancy being in the gun since 2 boxes of the exact same PRVI gave me such a large, consistent variance. I did do a little looking and the opinion of many is that current 7.62x54 production is a close to s**t as you can possibly get. Manufacturers can't get their act straight from one bullet weight to the next and production run variations/tolerances seem out of control. I know this sounds like a complaint and maybe it is but what I really have is a question. Does anyone know of anyone making decent, consistent ammo for this caliber or should I just go straight to reload (just my luck I slug at .312 and I have yet to try Sellier and Bellot or any of the Bear line).
Is Mosin ammo really that bad?
- Thread starter Boulevard
- Start date
The two boxes of ammo are very likely from different lots. That can make a difference. Usually not that much though. Does sound like the bullets are undersized. That will cause key holing. So will too low velocity. The one good thing is that it's not your rifle. An oversized barrel will cause it too, but it'd be with all ammo.
Reloading will make the whole issue go away. The only issue is that only Hornady makes a .312" bullet. Sierra and Speer use .311". Sellier and Bellot uses .311" too. Bear doesn't say. One thou very likely won't matter though.
Think paragraphs.
Reloading will make the whole issue go away. The only issue is that only Hornady makes a .312" bullet. Sierra and Speer use .311". Sellier and Bellot uses .311" too. Bear doesn't say. One thou very likely won't matter though.
Think paragraphs.
I am going to second the suggestion for surplus for plinking and target shooting. I use MFS SP for hunting but at the range I use the cheapest surplus I can find which is Chinese right now. With irons I can do hand size groups at 100m with the Chinese stuff and both the rifle and ammo can probably do better than that.
There is some great information out there on shimming, cork bedding and oiled canvas wrapping the barrel on Mosins to improve accuracy.
There is some great information out there on shimming, cork bedding and oiled canvas wrapping the barrel on Mosins to improve accuracy.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
different guns like different ammo it could very from batch to batch. but like others have said reloading is the key to accuracy in these old war horses
An update. I measured the 2 boxes of ammo that I have and the TULA, 148g, FMJ diameter is .307 with one at .314, the MFS, 180g, SP diameter is .306-.307. I am measuring where the case meets the bullet. If you have a minute and maybe a micrometer measure your bullets and post them here. Maybe the answer is for all of us to work together to find out just who is actually using the proper bullet.
I consider this gun a project so I will share something else. I have reduced recoil to that of an SKS with absolutely no kick up. I did this by screwing a very ugly piece of wood to the butt of the stock and extending it up 2 1/2 inches so that the top of the wood is slightly above the barrel. I used a 3/4" thick piece of neoprene rubber as a pad and buddy does this ever work. I then screwed another piece to form an 'L' which I use as a cheek rest since my gun is equipped with a 'PU' type of scope mount (you cannot use iron sights with this mod). This set up is really ugly so I made a type of sock using polar fleece which slides over the rear stock up to the sling hole. It ain't perfect but I hope to find a better cover. This little mod absolutely stabilizes the gun with no kick up what so ever and it must have cut the recoil in half. I put 40 rounds through the gun with this and walked away when I ran out of ammo. My 14 year old son put 5 rounds through it and never complained about the recoil or being sore the next day.
I cannot take credit for this insight. I was at the range and a very experienced 1000 yard shooter noticed my Mosin and its kicking and bucking. It was he who said that the butt of the stock was to low and that the gun was trying to rotate over my right shoulder. I simply took his idea and ran with it.
I consider this gun a project so I will share something else. I have reduced recoil to that of an SKS with absolutely no kick up. I did this by screwing a very ugly piece of wood to the butt of the stock and extending it up 2 1/2 inches so that the top of the wood is slightly above the barrel. I used a 3/4" thick piece of neoprene rubber as a pad and buddy does this ever work. I then screwed another piece to form an 'L' which I use as a cheek rest since my gun is equipped with a 'PU' type of scope mount (you cannot use iron sights with this mod). This set up is really ugly so I made a type of sock using polar fleece which slides over the rear stock up to the sling hole. It ain't perfect but I hope to find a better cover. This little mod absolutely stabilizes the gun with no kick up what so ever and it must have cut the recoil in half. I put 40 rounds through the gun with this and walked away when I ran out of ammo. My 14 year old son put 5 rounds through it and never complained about the recoil or being sore the next day.
I cannot take credit for this insight. I was at the range and a very experienced 1000 yard shooter noticed my Mosin and its kicking and bucking. It was he who said that the butt of the stock was to low and that the gun was trying to rotate over my right shoulder. I simply took his idea and ran with it.
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antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
you can get screw on recoil pads that fit in place of the butt plate. the Russian guns will have short stocks right around 12 1/2" LOP made so that everyone(men and women in the military) could use the gun with and without the heavy winter gear
Practice, Practice and Practice. The Mosin is a reliable rifle and unless the barrel is shot out you should get better groups than that. Most of my rifles will do 6" at 200 yards with just about any surplus ammo.Slug your bore and check to see if it is around .311.
^^Bore is .312 and I shoot 1 inch or less at 100 with a .22 WMR. I have grouped an entire box of 7.62 at 2 1/2 inch from this Mosin which is equal to or better than your claim so I know that it can shoot reasonably well...I have also seen 12 inch groups using the exact same ammo purchased elsewhere.
As of right now I have ammo in my possession that varies in size from .307 to .314 so to me, what I really need is an ammo supplier who consistently makes ammo .312 inches in diameter and so far 200g, SP MFS is the front runner.
I am going to take a micrometer on my next ammo buy and literally measure every bullet.
As of right now I have ammo in my possession that varies in size from .307 to .314 so to me, what I really need is an ammo supplier who consistently makes ammo .312 inches in diameter and so far 200g, SP MFS is the front runner.
I am going to take a micrometer on my next ammo buy and literally measure every bullet.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
you will not get a good measurement of the bullet unless you pull it from the case with a bullet puller
This ^, although they should be closer at the same point than you are measuring. The supply of 7.62x54r is so inconsistent you pretty much have to reload to get good results. Between 2006-2010, there was no ammo at all coming into the country & I got real friendly with my loading press & casting pot. Privi & S&B make good ammo, Lapua & Norma are very good if you have a tight bore/cash & Igman was pretty decent too. As far as steel case goes, I have had better luck with surplus than the commercial stuff esp if mexican matched.
Edited to add. If your bore is less than perfect, you will have much better luck with fmj than sp.
I measured my WW2 era .303 Brit using the same method and it is consistently .311 with no variation.
I know what you mean about pulling the bullet but the 7.62x54 and the .303 Brit bullet protrude so far out of the case that I feel confident in my measure.
I know what you mean about pulling the bullet but the 7.62x54 and the .303 Brit bullet protrude so far out of the case that I feel confident in my measure.
