Is SK standard ammo Match ammo??

[Eagleye]

22 Rimfires can be persnickity. I have a 40X Remington that I have tried at least 7 lots of ELEY TENEX in. It has not shown a liking for any of them.
However, I have a lot of ELEY Match EPS [Black Box] that it shoots very well indeed. A certain lot of Lapua Midas also shoots tiny groups in it.
You will not really know until you try the specific ammo in YOUR rifle. Dave.

 

[EHG]

Indeed Dave. My Rem 40X didn't like Midas +. Center- X much better. Need to try some Tenex.

 

[45Auto]

Totally agree with Eagleye. I have tried various brands/target grade of 22 ammo through my Annies, Cooper, and CZ's, and 40X when I still had one. Each one has a favourite. Sometimes it is common to other rifles which is always good. I try to keep decent records of all my rifles and ammo used; saves time later on. Testing is the only way. And using windflags.
Like seeing pics of the Vudoo targets! ...more Vudoos, more targets, lol

 

[johnl]

22 Rimfires can be persnickity. You will not really know until you try the specific ammo in YOUR rifle. Dave.

This and don’t forget lot number. My 1712 shot excellent groups with SK that I bought when the model first came out. I’m down to my last brick out of a case and about to order more. Hopefully newer production is consistent with a lot number of 10 years ago. Would suck to buy 5000 rnds and have it shoot no better that cheaper stuff.

 

[.22LRGUY]

This thread has been interesting to me, as it helps put into perspective where my own sensibilities are with respect to rimfire accuracy. They end at shopping by lot #s, weighing ammo, and rim thickness measuring. lol With that said, I don't think any of that is extreme...just falls on the other side of the "fun" fence for me. I'm mindful of that saying; "Perfection is the enemy of good". I've gone down too many rabbit holes in various hobbies...and know myself well enough that if things get a little too persnickety, the interest can come to an abrupt halt. Right now, "free time/bad weather" are the enemies of my own shooting so far this spring...:

I can see a time in the future where I'll be down to a couple of 22s only...and really hunker-down. Until then, too many aspects of the shooting sports are intriguing to me...so what little time I have gets divided among them. I'm currently cleaning my kayak for spring crappie fishing, and shopping for the best choke tube for my turkey gun. lol

Soul searching post... lol

 

[Chilly807]

This thread has been interesting to me, as it helps put into perspective where my own sensibilities are with respect to rimfire accuracy. They end at shopping by lot #s, weighing ammo, and rim thickness measuring. lol With that said, I don't think any of that is extreme...just falls on the other side of the "fun" fence for me. I'm mindful of that saying; "Perfection is the enemy of good". I've gone down too many rabbit holes in various hobbies...and know myself well enough that if things get a little too persnickety, the interest can come to an abrupt halt. Right now, "free time/bad weather" are the enemies of my own shooting so far this spring...:

I can see a time in the future where I'll be down to a couple of 22s only...and really hunker-down. Until then, too many aspects of the shooting sports are intriguing to me...so what little time I have gets divided among them. I'm currently cleaning my kayak for spring crappie fishing, and shopping for the best choke tube for my turkey gun. lol

Soul searching post... lol

That's pretty much where I am, too. The .22 accuracy rabbit hole is one of the worst ones, you can build the best .22 the world has ever seen, and still not find ammo that shoots to its potential.
My recent results with a Tikka underline that in heavy black ink. $4 per box ammo should NOT outshoot $14 per box ammo by a wide margin! Yet it does.
I shoot to enjoy myself, and succeed at that for the most part.
Like you, anything I take too seriously soon goes by the wayside in favour of more enjoyable pursuits.
My wife noticed I usually take a handgun when I go to the range to work on rifle shooting. I guess her curiosity got the best of her, because she asked about it.
I pointed to the cased rifle, "If that doesn't go well.." then I indicated the pistol case, "THAT is stress relief.."
She just laughed.

 

[Mystic Precision]

FYI, Mission Action Rimfire Match... top shooter SK Flatnose Basic.... 2nd Eley club...... 3rd Lapua Center X... didn't catch 4th... 5th SK Rifle Match

See a trend...????

Test as many types as you can at 100yds and further... stock up as much of the stuff that shoots well. Stop fussing with the ammo and just enjoy it for what it is.

Jerry

 

[Chilly807]

This and don’t forget lot number. My 1712 shot excellent groups with SK that I bought when the model first came out. I’m down to my last brick out of a case and about to order more. Hopefully newer production is consistent with a lot number of 10 years ago. Would suck to buy 5000 rnds and have it shoot no better that cheaper stuff.

Hmm.. my suggestion would be to try a brick at the most, two or three boxes would be better. My first lot of Center-X through a 452 was really good. The second lot, about a year later (three bricks of it), is mediocre at best. The same rifle, on the same day, shoots cheaper RWS Target Rifle quite well.
Not many dealers in Canada wil try to supply you with specific lot numbers at your request, it takes time to sort through what they have. It doesn't hurt to ask the question though.
You either take your chances and buy a large amount of ammo at once, or you take a chance that what they send you on the second order will be the same lot you got the first time (assuming it shot well).

 

[johnl]

FYI, Mission Action Rimfire Match... top shooter SK Flatnose Basic.... 2nd Eley club...... 3rd Lapua Center X... didn't catch 4th... 5th SK Rifle Match

See a trend...????

Test as many types as you can at 100yds and further... stock up as much of the stuff that shoots well. Stop fussing with the ammo and just enjoy it for what it is.

Jerry

How much for a case of SK flat nose basic shipped to the island

 

[hoytcanon]

Well above, I stated that I don't consider SK St.+ to be match ammo, but that it can be very good... here is a five shot group shot yesterday with SK St.+ shot indoors at 25 meters from a bone stock Ruger M77/22 Canoe Paddle hunting rifle with Leupold VX-2 4-12X40mm AO.

 

[hoytcanon]

And the next 5 shot group with CCI Subsonic HP's...

 

[grauhanen]

Many times on rimfire shooting forums and threads good advice is often given to try many different kinds of ammo in the quest for .22LR accuracy. The advice often continues to note that a shooter should "lot test" to determine which lot of ammo gives the best accuracy and then buy as much of it as he can. But how many non-competitive shooters do it? It can be costly and time consuming -- and it may be easier said than done.

When guys say they are "lot testing" a certain flavour of ammo, say Center X, for example, how many different lots are available in Canada at any one time? I suspect that the more premium the ammo the fewer lots of it are available. In other words, there must be far fewer different lots of Midas + in circulation than different lots of SK Standard Plus.

Another question to consider is how large is a lot of "match ammo" -- how many rounds per lot? Apparently a new lot number is assigned each time a machine making the ammo is turned on/off or with each shift change. Lot numbers would be assigned daily, perhaps more often.

An experienced shooter who recently visited the Lapua test facility in Mesa, Arizona, reported on RFC that Center X lots of ammo were relatively small, in the low tens of thousands of rounds per lot. He said he's heard of lots of Center X as large as 35000 (seven cases). He said he bought all the ammo available of the two lots that tested well for him in his rifle at the Lapua testing facility, nearly five cases in all. It's not clear, however, if the Mesa establishment had all the ammo in those particular lots or if some of it was elsewhere. Of course I don't pretend to know if the figures reported on RFC are accurate. The point is that the number of rounds per lot is certainly finite and could be relatively small.

The long and the short of it is that for the non-competitive shooter in Canada it may not be possible to do extensive lot testing. The number of different lots to test is not large and in any case it's may well be that the number of cases of it is small. To further complicate the matter, it's not always possible to find the desired ammo variety in significant quantities, let alone in different lots.

 

[grauhanen]

Well above, I stated that I don't consider SK St.+ to be match ammo, but that it can be very good... here is a five shot group shot yesterday with SK St.+ shot indoors at 25 meters from a bone stock Ruger M77/22 Canoe Paddle hunting rifle with Leupold VX-2 4-12X40mm AO.

Nice shooting. How would you define "match ammo"?

 

[hoytcanon]

Nice shooting. How would you define "match ammo"?

In general, I will use the manufacturers definition of their product... in other words did the ammo in question receive "match grade" QC... which you are invariably going to pay for, and which we all know does not mean that it will shoot any better than CCI SV in any given rifle. In general though I believe that the more precise (and expensive) the ammo the greater the likelihood that it will rise to the top. A broader definition which is entirely reasonable is any ammo actually utilized in a match, is "match" ammo... the problem with defining it in this looser sense is that it really does not convey the reality of what most people think of when they hear "match ammo." If I have a rifle that happens to love CCI Subs (which I do), and I shoot it in a match, I can on this day and with this rifle refer to it as "match" ammo, but most would not concur and in fact the statement can be misleading to new or inexperienced shooters. So, long story longer... IMO, the more you pay the more "match" it is... that fact just might not show up on paper.

My match days are over, I am predominantly a hunter and a "puncher of paper" for my own satisfaction... I have several rifles and pistols and go through cases every year, the bulk of which is CCI SV, CCI Subsonic HP's, CCI Mini-Mag HP's, SK Standard Plus, and a few others... I have a rota of a dozen types of ammo that I test in each new acquisition.

 

[Mystic Precision]

How much for a case of SK flat nose basic shipped to the island

Send me a pm or email to chat.

Thanks

Jerry

 

[AikiNut]

I’ve played around with enough SK + to know it is great for practicing but I won’t use it in a match. So is it match ammo? For some it definitely could be and others not so much. Questions like this are almost impossible to answer in any definitive way. Depends on the task at hand.

Good grouping - why not adjust the rear sight a little bit to the left so you hit the middle? In a competition those are all really tight groups but at least three "not bullseyes".. I recall one match where I shot a 99 in CF Pistol, in competition - all grouped up on the right edge of the 10, with one just far enough out to the right to lose a point. Was it me? The wind? Should I have adjusted the sight? Who knows, but even with this great grouping, if it were me, I'd have moved the rear sight a click or two left after the first group.

 

[grauhanen]

In general, I will use the manufacturers definition of their product... in other words did the ammo in question receive "match grade" QC... which you are invariably going to pay for, and which we all know does not mean that it will shoot any better than CCI SV in any given rifle. In general though I believe that the more precise (and expensive) the ammo the greater the likelihood that it will rise to the top. A broader definition which is entirely reasonable is any ammo actually utilized in a match, is "match" ammo... the problem with defining it in this looser sense is that it really does not convey the reality of what most people think of when they hear "match ammo." If I have a rifle that happens to love CCI Subs (which I do), and I shoot it in a match, I can on this day and with this rifle refer to it as "match" ammo, but most would not concur and in fact the statement can be misleading to new or inexperienced shooters. So, long story longer... IMO, the more you pay the more "match" it is... that fact just might not show up on paper.

I think a definition of "match ammo" that includes, as you say, "'match grade' QC" is heading in the right direction. At the same time, however, simply using an ammo while shooting a match does nothing to justify calling it "match ammo". If someone is using .22LR ammo made by Winchester or Remington in a shooting match, that doesn't mean he's using "match ammo".

Although a definition of what qualifies as match ammo can seem hard to pin down -- like what's the definition of "sports car?" -- there are characteristics of match ammo that shouldn't be in dispute. Most people would agree match ammo isn't cheap, a reflection of the high standards in material and quality control needed to produce it. Furthermore, it is reliable with few FTF incidences and it has reliable ignition. It has consistent dimensions in case size and thickness as well as in bullet size and weight, powder and primer material. Above all, it is accurate. To be sure not every variety in every rifle shoots equally (that would be too easy) -- but there is a flavour that suits every rifle.

People would probably also agree that the best match ammo is made by the "big three" match ammo makers, Eley, SK/Lapua (SK made top tier ammo such as SK Match Gold before becoming part of the Nammo Group which owns Nammo Lapua Oy and Nammo Schönebeck). What they all have in common are the facilities, equipment and machinery, and experience and personnel to produce the best .22LR ammo. They know from research and science what ingredients or materials go into producing the best ammo. They also have the quality control necessary to maintain the best manufacturing consistency possible. To be certain, not each and every round produced by the big three is "good enough" to be the top level ammo, and the result is different grades of ammo produced on the match ammo machinery with the match ammo ingredients by the match ammo people in the match ammo facility.

Is SK Standard Plus "match ammo"? It's produced in a match ammo manufacturing facility. Is CCI SV or Green Tag "match ammo"? I don't think of it as such, but it may produce some good results. It's like asking if a Ford Mustang is a "sports car?" It's the best candidate made by Ford and it can be fast.

 

[grauhanen]

Good grouping - why not adjust the rear sight a little bit to the left so you hit the middle? In a competition those are all really tight groups but at least three "not bullseyes".. I recall one match where I shot a 99 in CF Pistol, in competition - all grouped up on the right edge of the 10, with one just far enough out to the right to lose a point. Was it me? The wind? Should I have adjusted the sight? Who knows, but even with this great grouping, if it were me, I'd have moved the rear sight a click or two left after the first group.

Some shooters prefer to shoot their groups off to the side. This means they don't shoot out their aiming point, the dot in the middle.

 

[easyrider604]

So is dry firing these 22lr rifles OK? I always thought the common knowledge was it will eventually break the firing pin.

I know stock CZs can be very good accurate rifles but they are not match quality by any stretch.

They are designed to and can, be dry-fired safely without damaging the firing pin or the breech face.

That’s one feature that Shawn at Reliable gun mentioned when I bought my first 452, a Style in 2002. While I don’t dry fire intentionally, it’s happened many times on my CZs. No marks on their breech faces at all.

 

[Toolman]

Good grouping - why not adjust the rear sight a little bit to the left so you hit the middle? In a competition those are all really tight groups but at least three "not bullseyes".. I recall one match where I shot a 99 in CF Pistol, in competition - all grouped up on the right edge of the 10, with one just far enough out to the right to lose a point. Was it me? The wind? Should I have adjusted the sight? Who knows, but even with this great grouping, if it were me, I'd have moved the rear sight a click or two left after the first group.

Hitting the dot wasn't the point of the exercise.