Is the 870 P Available In Canada?

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Mark Mags

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Hey Gang,

Just wondering if the "P" versions of the 870 and/or the 11-87 are available to the regular Canadian consumer?

I have been reading and looking and haven't found anything.
Is the "P" worth the extra cash over the Express model overall?
Is the quality of the "P" worth the extra cash? I have heard people swear by, and at, their 870 Express as the quality isn't what it used to be...

Any and all info, thoughts, and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Its available, I got mine via specifical order. IMO its a nicer gun but not several hundred dollars nicer. The finish and a few easily upgraded small parts are the only real differences.

If I had to do it over again I would have gone with an older used Wingmaster or 'P' since they're made much better than any recent 870 model and will cost the same or less than a new Express.
 
No problem for us regular people to own them. Wolverine at the top of the page carries them. No plastic/synthetic materials to be found on it other than the stock. There is a write-up on Remington's website (LEO/MIL area) explaining the difference between the Police model and others.
 
Most of the Remington 870P talking points are just marketing terms that aren't necessarily limited to the 'P' or no longer apply since that list was written, yes the QC is somewhat less poor, yes the springs are stronger (not so much because they're need for function but as a hedge against neglect in a "fleet" situation IMO.

Yes to machined extractor instead of a piece of MIM garbage, and yes to a decent Parkerized finish instead of the beaded blasted cold blue of the typical Express. The last two points are the only ones that really count IMO, and its pretty easy to swap out a cast extractor for a milled one so that basically leaves the finish.
 
I have a P and an older express. Other than the exterior finish not much difference. Inside machining looks identical. the P does not look hundreds of dollars better. If I were starting again I would buy an old wingmaster and build on that.
 
It's not. A police will come out of the bush looking like an express after two days. Guys go on by the added parkerizing and small parts. I had one. I trashed it and traded it rather than selling on the EE, cause a worn and abused 870 is still the same in the end and guys that know won't shell out the dough. I've had over 12 870s. You have to tear them to pieces to sell to get some coin back.
Pimp out a wingmaster instead. It's a smoother gun.
Strange enough..I found the super magnum to be easiest to load and buttery action of all 870s.( the one I had anyway)
 
My 'P' required some polishing of the chamber to feed certain cheap shells, just as hear so much of with the Express models, it also had a very sticky action, as heavy as I've seen on any pump, and required hand polishing on top of quite a bit of cycling and shooting to break it in properly.

It's a solid gun but don't expect a premium gun, at least as it comes out of the box anymore. Want a true premium pump? Get the ones that built the 870's reputation, an older Wingmaster or 'P'.
 
I found this submission on the "Blue Line Forums". Dave is the site administrator, a highly respected member, and a long time police and civilian firearms instructor:

"An 870 is an 870 is an 870. The differences are mostly in the finish and how they make some of the internal parts.

In order of increasing wearability (and cost):

- 870 Express models have a matte black oxide surface finish. The internal parts, chamber and barrel are not as highly polished as the more expensive models. The extractor is not machined but made from a MIM (metal-injected molding) process.

- 870 Tactical Express models have the same bead-blasted matte black oxide finish. (Some models use a duracoat paint finish as well.) The internal parts are not as polished as the more expensive models, and the magazine extension tube can have some rough edges where it joins the magazine tube, causing the odd hangup when shooting very fast. The extractor is not machined but made from a MIM (metal-injected molding) process. The Tactical Express models have various 'tacticool' accessories included.

- 870 Police models have a true parkerized finish and use machined extractors. The barrel, chamber and trigger group parts are polished more than the express models. They are made on a special production line, and are better finished inside and out.

- 870 Wingmaster models use a highly polished blueing finish, machined extractors and polished chambers and barrels.

- 870 Marine Magnum models use an electroless nickel finish on ALL internal and external parts. (It is NOT stainless steel.) Parts are polished and the extractor is machined instead of the powdered metal MIM used on lesser models.

- 870 Marine Magnum XCS models are brand-new. They are black versions of the Marine Magnum and use the new Remington Trinyte finish on the outside and nickel- coated parts internally. This is likely the most expensive and durable of all 'tactical' finishes.

So there is a quick summary of some of the differences. I would decide the look you wanted and go from there. Some of their new Tactical Express shotguns are pretty goofy but some of them are very nice. (I especially like the 18" barrel with the Picatinny rail and the ghost ring sights.)

If rough chambers and magazine tubes bother you, it takes only a few minutes with some VERY fine steel wool and a dowel in an electric drill to polish these parts."

BTW, I have never heard of the MIM breaking under normal use, ever. It is a 60 second drop-in replacement, and I think they are about $10-15 at Brownells.
 
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and more from Dave at Blue Line -- an interesting comparison of sights:

"Just to update this thread and bring it back to the top, here is more information on sights and on the 870 Express models.

The 870 Express is designed as a 'price-point' gun; it gives good value for the dollar and gets people into the solid design of the 870 without too much money. The downside is the finish is a bit rough and the black oxide coating is not as durable.

The 870 Police is made on a different line and is made to much higher standards with the finish and some of the internal parts.

The 870 Marine Magnum is still one of the best pump shotguns in the world and I would sooner have an 870 Marine Magnum over any two other shotguns combined (aside from a Benelli M4, of course.)

It is always up to the buyer what is most important for their purposes. My training shotguns go through hundreds of thousands of rounds and I would not use an 870 Express for this. But for others, it gets you the solid design for less money.

The 870 Express Tactical models are designed for those who want some 'tacticool' accessories, and the looks of the 870 Police without having to pay 870 Police prices. BUT I would not trust an 870 Express Tactical with my life right out of the factory. I have struggled and struggled but to this day I have not found a solution to the problem of a shell slowing slightly as it reaches the joint between the mag extension and the magazine tube. 99.9% of all the shotgun shooters out there would never approach the speed of shooting at which this becomes a problem, but when one shoots and pumps as fast as some of my students can, this becomes an issue.

I would therefore NOT use an 870 Express Tactical for serious purposes unless the mag extension is replaced with a shorter spring and a Remington end cap. I may be stupid but I would easily trade off two rounds of magazine capacity for 100% reliability (plus, learning how to properly speedload a shotgun, of course.)

Given a choice, I would spend the extra money on an 870 Police or an 870 Marine Magnum, and replace the stock with the Hogue overmoulded stock for a simple, light and reliable shotgun.

As for sights, I have been torture-testing a variety of electronic sights for an upcoming article, and I acquired both the Aimpoint Micro H1 and Micro T1. They are fantastic sights and I am really liking their size and handling characteristics when mounted on serious shotguns.

The Aimpoint Micro sight has the advantages of a battery-life measured in years, and an easily-found 2032 button cell that powers it. One mounts it, sights it in and leaves it on; only replacing the battery every four or five years.

The Insight MRDS doesn't have quite the battery life of the Aimpoint, but it will also last years when left on constantly. It takes a far-less readily available 1632 button cell (PLEASE Insight - change this design!) but it does have the unique feature of an ambient light sensor that adjusts the dot brightness to actual light conditions. (It works great!)

The EOTech is larger and heavier than the previous two mini-red dot sights, but it is very tough. (The opening shot in my article is the EOTech being driven over by a truck.) The lighted reticle gives a slightly more accurate sight picture at the expense of fractions of a second in speed. It also shows if the weapon is canted when firing, which can affect point-of-aim. Battery life is measured in hundreds of hours instead of years, but it is not designed to be left on all the time. (In fact, it will turn itself off after a certain number of hours if not being used.) It can be turned on VERY rapidly though, so this isn't as big an issue as it may first seem. (The target reticle on the EOTech consists of multiple tiny dots, so it take lots more battery power.)

Just to illustrate what my sights go through ... I was doing a combat shotgun demo the other day with a hostage and target scenario, with the heads edge-to-edge at 7 meters. First, I took off the Insight sight I was using, threw it as hard as I could directly onto the concrete and watched it bounce off a steel sidewall. I then mounted it back up again and rapidly fired two rounds of 00-buck into the head of the target without putting a single pellet near the 'hostage.' How's that for confidence in your sights?"
 
I've heard that 870's have lost some of their reputation recently due to (??? fill in the blank) My question relates to the wingmaster how "old" do you have to buy used to insure that your not in the recent category? Remington started making them in the 1950's so would a five year old one have a more robust build...10 years.....20 years old? Where's the break off year?
 
plinker 777 said:
I've heard that 870's have lost some of their reputation recently due to (??? fill in the blank) My question relates to the wingmaster how "old" do you have to buy used to insure that your not in the recent category? Remington started making them in the 1950's so would a five year old one have a more robust build...10 years.....20 years old? Where's the break off year?
Click to expand...

Generally the older the better, I'd favor the pre-1980 ones. However it wasn't until the early to mid '90s (when so many companies across so many industries started making products more for their shareholders than their actual customers) did they start getting questionable IMO.
 
Mark Mags said:
Hey Kurgan,

Thanks for the info.

Checked out your pics...nice Triumph. I am riding a '08 Bonnie. See down at Sturgess sometime.
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Thanks. An '11 Bonne is on my list for this winter. I recently sold the Tiger, and it was the only motorcycle (out of many) that I regret selling. Jamie at Sturgess gave me a good deal on it to. Oh well, hindsight is 20-20.
 
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