Is the 8x57 really that lackluster?

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davemccarthy707

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I have been reading the ballistics charts and have been baffled. Is the 8mm Mauser as lackluster as I think it is? I would like to have a Yugo Mauser for moose hunting, but not if it hasn't at least got the punch of a .303 brit.
 
8MM Mauser, 196 grain - 2592 fps / 2924 ft. lbs. (Sellier & Bellot)
.303 British, 174 grain - 2,496 fps / 2,408 ft. Ibs. (mk7 ball)


what ballistics were you looking at?
 
I read the "punch" of an 8x57mm is just under that of a 30-06. If you are using surplus, you will certainly feel it on your shoulder and so will your target.
 
Most handloading manuals (and American factory ammo) keep the loads real low because of the .318 and .323 bore size issue plus the fact that many of the 8mm are in old rifes that may not be "safe" for modern loads.

They may or may not be right depending on circumstances.

Good rifles with good handloads (with the bullets seated out nice and far that allows for more powder) gives results close to 30-06 levels. They are very good rifles to hunt with.
 
diopter said:
American loadings are little better than Win 32 specials.

Look at the Euro loadings:
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/rifle-ammunition-detail.php?ammunition=12&product=211

http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/rifle-ammunition-detail.php?ammunition=12&product=212

http://www.norma.cc/sortimentjakt.asp?Kaliber=27&Lang=2&Kalibernamn=8x57JRS
Click to expand...
Kinda like the American data on the 6.5 X 55?
There's no way a European cartridge can come close to a 'merican one.
(while the "Star Spangled Banner" is playing in the background; either that or "The Battle Hymn of the Republic")
And I'm American on one side of the family before anyone gets revv'd up:)
 
7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser ) K98k/ZF41 Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: 23-inch barrel; Remington brass and CCI Large Rifle primers used (Rifle Issue #229 - January, 2007)
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
150 Speer spitzer Hodgdon Varget 50.0 2,727
Remarks: variation (fps): 44; accurate load
150 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon Varget 50.0 2,719
Remarks: variation (fps): 51; accurate
150 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 53.0 2,545
Remarks: variation (fps): 36; mild but very accurate
--------------------------------------------------------
8x57 JRS (Vihtavuori Reloading Guide 6) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Warning! Notes: test barrel: 24 1/2", 1 in 9 1/2" twist; primers: Large Rifle; cases: Lapua, trim-to length: 2.236"; loads less than minimum charges shown are not recommended; USE MAXIMUM LOADS WITH CAUTION!
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N140 48.5 2615
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.953
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N140 51.7 2815
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.953
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N540 48.1 2602
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.953
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N540 54.3 2920
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.953
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N150 43.7 2336
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.953
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N150 47.5 2920
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.953
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N135 39.5 2428
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N135 42.1 2428
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N140 41.8 2290
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N140 45.4 2480
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N540 44.1 2329
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N540 46.6 2503
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N150 43.7 2336
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N150 47.5 2523
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189

-----------------------------------------------------------
8x57 JS (8mm Mauser) (Vihtavuori Reloading Guide 6) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: test barrel: 24 1/2", 1 in 9 1/2 twist; primers: Large Rifle; cases: Lapua, trim-to length: 2.236"; loads less than minimum charges shown are not recommended; USE MAXIMUM LOADS WITH CAUTION!
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
125 Hornady SP Vihtavuori VV-N130 43.2 2867
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.913
125 Hornady SP Vihtavuori VV-N130 48.1 3117
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.913
125 Hornady SP Vihtavuori VV-N133 48.5 2897
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.913
125 Hornady SP Vihtavuori VV-N133 54.0 3212
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.913
125 Hornady SP Vihtavuori VV-N135 49.7 2894
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.913
125 Hornady SP Vihtavuori VV-N135 55.1 3196
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.913
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N135 45.8 2628
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.992
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N135 51.1 2887
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.992
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N140 48.3 2621
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 2.992
150 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N140 53.9 2927
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 2.992
170 Speer SP Vihtavuori VV-N135 44.1 2454
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.031
170 Speer SP Vihtavuori VV-N135 49.1 2720
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.031
170 Speer SP Vihtavuori VV-N140 46.1 2451
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.031
170 Speer SP Vihtavuori VV-N140 51.4 2749
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.031
170 Speer SP Vihtavuori VV-N150 48.3 2497
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.031
170 Speer SP Vihtavuori VV-N150 53.7 2799
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.031
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N135 39.5 2352
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N135 44.4 2546
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N140 45.2 2405
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N140 49.5 2559
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N540 46.0 2349
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N540 48.9 2677
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N150 45.2 2398
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
180 Lapua Naturalis Vihtavuori VV-N150 49.7 2631
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189; case full
200 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N140 42.7 2169
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.130
200 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N140 47.5 2490
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.130
200 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N150 44.1 2231
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.130
200 Speer Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N150 49.2 2503
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.130
200 Nosler Partition Vihtavuori VV-N160 50.5 2234
Remarks: starting load; COL (in.): 3.189
200 Nosler Partition Vihtavuori VV-N160 56.2 2575
Remarks: maximum load; COL (in.): 3.189
 
As an aside, what could you lads recommend for a sensible 8x57 load in one of TradeEx's 96 Husqvarna Mausers?

These old ladies came out of Sweden, where I'm sure they've digested all sorts of full-honk fodder, but one should be sensitive to their advanced age and marginally weaker system, no?

Dan
 
Well, handloading is not an option for me. I can get S&B ammo locally. I was looking at the Winchester and Prvi Partizan online ballistics calculator.
 
the 8mm as loaded by NORMA was actually just a little better than the 06- 196 grain bullet moving at just over 2800 fps- stick THAT in one of SLIM STOCKED wartime mausers, and it kicks worse than a mule=MORE THAN ADEQUATE for deer, or moose, or anything but BIG BEARS- rechamber that for 8mm/06( miser's magnum) and she really gets going
 
Here's my big game load for my K98K, and I get no pressure signs from it (usual caveats about reloading this recipe and blindly throwing it in your old beater rifle apply...). I'd bet the farm I could get more juice out of it if I wanted to test more than just the two powders I did...

It's not a magnum, but it's a far cry from a 32 win special...


#2 Heavy Load (2475 fps - measured -, 2992 ft/lbs)
Primer: CCI #200 Large Rifle Primer
Powder: IMR 4064 ###X (listed max is ###X gr)
Bullet: Sierra Gameking 220gr
Brass: Winchester
Notes - Shoots right around 1" all day long.

There's nothing on the continent that will take one of these rounds in the boiler and not die right quick.

Like most eurpean catridges, it's downloaded like crazy by north american ammo makers.
 
Last edited:
According to Sierra data, you are 7grs over max.
Must be nice!


8x57mm JS Mauser (Sierra Data - Edition V) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: firearm used: M48 Mauser; barrel length: 23"; twist: 1x10"; case: Remington; trim-to length: 2.230"; primer: Remington 9 1/2; Sierra does not recommend MatchKing bullets for hunting applications; loads less than minimum charges shown are not recommended; use maximum loads with caution
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.



220 Sierra SBT Hodgdon Varget 37.1 1,900
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"
220 Sierra SBT Hodgdon Varget 39.1 2,000
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"
220 Sierra SBT Hodgdon Varget 41.1 2,100
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"
220 Sierra SBT Hodgdon Varget 43.1 2,200
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"; maximum load
220 Sierra SBT IMR IMR-4064 37.1 1,900
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"
220 Sierra SBT IMR IMR-4064 39.0 2,000
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"
220 Sierra SBT IMR IMR-4064 40.9 2,100
Remarks: C.O.A.L.: 3.140"; maximum load
---------------------------------------------------

8x57mm German (WWII Military Rifle Loads) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: All chronograph figures taken at approximately 6 feet from the muzzle using an Oehler Model 35P. Five shots per string were fired. Remington brass used and Winchester standard Large Rifle primers. (Handloader Issue #254 - August, 2008)
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
195 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon Varget 48.0 2491
Remarks: rifle: VZ24; barrel length (inches): 24
200 hollowpoint boat-tail Hodgdon Varget 48.0 2476
Remarks: rifle: VZ24; barrel length (inches): 24
 
The 8x57 isn't exactly lackluster as evidenced by millions of graves filled by it in the many wars of the 20th century. Allasame for the .30-06, .303 Brit and 7.62x54 which were the big killers in a host of military rifles and machine guns.

The M96 Swede is made with excellent metallurgy, but it is a small ring Mauser, so I wouldn't push the upper limits with it. Accuracy trumps velocity and the good news is that most of the MILSURP ctgs will show their best accuracy at less than top velocity.
 
8X57mm Mauser and 7.62X54R and 30-06 are all couch buddies when it comes to ft-lbs of power and muzzle speed. The .303 Brit is not quite up there, but still holds it's own.
 
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