Is The Stated MOA Of Your Rifle Like A Good Fish Story?

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sobo4303

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On these forums one frequently reads from from forum participants as to how their average rifle shoots better than MOA or the 1/2" MOA. I have met up with some folks and friends at different ranges and more often than not, their forum facts do not amount to the reality of their actual shooting.

Kind of reminds me of the old "fish tales". I guess my question is why is there this seeming propensity to exaggerate groupings? Particularly to new people to the sport?

Last week I met up with one guy at the range whom wrote on another forum that his new Ruger M77 was shooting 1/2" MOA cloverleafs. Yet at the range, his groupings were larger than my 1.5" MOA - and he was still developing loads.

Musta been the light wind we were experiencing. Not a hill to die on, but why the need to exaggerate, why not tell it like it really is? :confused:
 
I gotta love the guys that pull out a little folded piece of paper out of their wallets with a 3 rd 1" group on a 1.5" chunk of paper. I'd like to see the rest of the target.;)
 
I recently bought a "tuned" M14 on the EE, that reportedly could shout 1" MOA all day. The best I could do with it was 4 inch groups. I guess it must be my shooting, although I have rifles in my collection that can on a good day shout 1" MOA.
 
alot of rifles are capable of 1 inch shooting. some of us arn't as good as the rifles. i have a few rifles capable of 1 inch and when i'm on my targets look great. sometimes after shooting lots of rounds out of a light 338 or 8 mag i start to pull some shots. when i know its operator eror it doesn't mean the rifle isn't capable.
 
People shoot 20, 3 round groups, 1 of which is .5" and they call their rifle a 1/2 MOA rifle.

Your rifle is a 1/2 MOA rifle when it shoots that consistantly, not on the odd lucky group.

Also, people should be shooting 5 round groups, not 3. If your shots walk when the barrel heats up than wait for it to cool before shooting.
 
I can occasionally shoot sub-MOA on some rifles on good (very good!) days, but usually I average 2 to 4" with most of my rifles, and that's more than sufficient for most of my shooting. I don't know why people have to exaggerate their accuracy. Maybe it's the same disorder that causes them to buy giant trucks with lift kits and oversize tires and exhausts? Just saying.....
 
Factory Remington 700 VTR 243 Win

All groups are measured center to center
This rifle equipped with an AI AICS 2.0 stock and a target 6-24x50mm riflescope shoots better than 1.25" 5 shot groups at 200m with Hornady 95gr SST ammo.
The same rifle shoots Sierra 80gr Blitz reloads (Hornady brass, Federal match primer, 37gr of Varget, 2.635 COAL) better than 0.5" 5 shot groups at 100m.

I think that this rifle is as good as it gets with a factory Remington 700: a 1/2 to 3/4 MOA rifle.

Factory Remington 700 CDL SF 270 WSM

This rifle would shoot 5 shot groups of Winchester 130gr PowerMax ammo in a 6cm x 4cm area at 200m.
With 110gr Sierra MatchKing reloads, it would shoot much better than 1" 5 shot groups at 100m. (useless for hunting)

I think that this rifle is a typical good Remington 700: a 1 1/4 MOA rifle with good hunting ammo.

One last comment:
I've seen great accuracy (1/2 - 3/4 MOA) from factory bull barrel but have yet to see a single very accurate sporter rifle.
It seems that barrel rigidity is key to short range (200m or less) accuracy.

Alex
 
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Those folks that brag of having hunting rifles that shoot tiny groups all day long everyday are the same folk that have a 1-ton pick-up with a HEMI under the hood and that get 30MPG towing a horse trailer in a head wind. They are naturally full of $h!t and most of us have them figured out within 10 seconds of speaking with them.

M.O.A or Sub-M.O.A discussions should be taken with a grain of salt. Tiny groups are of very little importances when it comes to medium/big game hunting. It is more important to have a rifle that will place a cold bore first shot in the same place anytime and everytime. With a properly placed first shot, follow-ups are not necessary! Should you feel the need to take a follow-up shot, the animal will be moving as will you and your rifle! Under those circumstances there is no rifle or shooter capable of producing M.O.A or Sub-M.O.A groups anyway rendering the whole "my rifle is more accurate than your's" kind of pointless. Rifles capable of minute of angle from the bench are just as un-necessary as premium bullets are for taking game.
 
If a bolt action doesn't shoot MOA I sell it? Not uncommon at all....... expected...hell my Marlin 45-70 shoots into 1/2" with two bullet weights..Harold
 
mbogo3 said:
If a bolt action doesn't shoot MOA I sell it? Not uncommon at all....... expected...hell my Marlin 45-70 shoots into 1/2" with two bullet weights..Harold
Click to expand...


With the two weights randomly mixed in the magazine, of course.;)

There are some folks here who are really good shooters - I've shot with them.

But in general, I take most accuracy claims with a large grain of salt.
 
If you have a good quality rifle, 1moa or less should be expected, not a surprise. The difference comes in what people think quality is.

As well, I stopped taking pics of groups a while ago. I know what each of my rifles can and can't do, and the only one they have to satisfy is me.
 
A sub-moa rifle is very nice of course, but making consistent hits on 10" to 18" diameter gongs from various field positions at different ranges is usable practical accuracy.

To me anyways. Just my 2 cents. It is a lot of fun as well!
 
I was very pleased with the first groups from my T/C Icon,hunting rifle.

168 A-max,44gr Varget.No load development...

First group in center,second up left,third up right...Barrel heating...

fourth down left,fifth down right.

I love the gun
 

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cam1936 said:
People shoot 20, 3 round groups, 1 of which is .5" and they call their rifle a 1/2 MOA rifle.

Your rifle is a 1/2 MOA rifle when it shoots that consistently, not on the odd lucky group.
Click to expand...

This is fact!! What is your rifle "consistently" capable of??
Very few factory rifles will consistently stay under moa.

Rifles with aftermarket barrels, and that have been set up for accuracy
often do stay sub-moa with loads they like.

That being said, I have two factory rifles that I can honestly say are sub-moa. I averaged 25 groups from the one, a 700 SSDM in 30-06, and it worked out to .79". :)
This is a keeper, since those groups were shot with several different loads and bullet weights.

Regards, Eagleye.
 
blargon said:
If you have a good quality rifle, 1moa or less should be expected, not a surprise.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. MOA at 100 yards is not very hard to achieve with modern bolt action rifles with solid rings and good glass.
The guys that are shooting 1"groups at 300 and 400 yards with XCR's I call b.s on.

Cheers!!
 
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