Is the WK/MCR Factory Default Gas Setting Adverse Mode?
- Thread starter Ustauk
- Start date
English bro this is a civilised space
Well, was messin at the range with the set screw fully closing off the vent. The gun still worked. Worked good too. I think the force from inside the barrel, was directly blowing back the bolt.
Any feed back from youz guys, as to what's going on?
Any feed back from youz guys, as to what's going on?
i don't think force applied directly to the bolt can cause the gun to cycle - bolt should be rotated and locked into the barrel extension. how it should be working is gas pushes the piston back which pushes on the bolt carrier. bolt carrier moves backwards and engages the cam pin which rotates and unlocks the bolt allowing it to move backwards. however, the bolt carrier does have to travel a bit of a distance before the cam pin engages, to recoil might be slapping it back enough to unlock the bolt? esp with weak recoil spring? dunno. i do know that my gun was going into battery (bolt locked, etc.) but bolt carrier was not going fully forward causing light strikes. so, these guns do have issues with that bit of movement between locked bolt and bolt carrier fully forward.
however, occams razor says to check your gas block and see if it is possible for gas to get through even with set screw full in before going any deeper. regardless, obviously too much gas in factory form. hey, perhaps you have the first delayed blowback 180! try shooting without gas altogether (remove piston) and see if it runs.
however, occams razor says to check your gas block and see if it is possible for gas to get through even with set screw full in before going any deeper. regardless, obviously too much gas in factory form. hey, perhaps you have the first delayed blowback 180! try shooting without gas altogether (remove piston) and see if it runs.
If you believe you have effectively turned off the gas and the rifle is still cycling, that says that the set screw isn't working for one reason or the other, but one would need to see the gas block and see how the set screw is installed as a gas stop.
The set screw idea is really just a plug or stop valve.
It doesn't regulate the amount of gas available at the gas block, it just incrementally closes off the available area that connects the gas to the piston.
You'll get undesigned wear at the block and this valve and maybe increased wear at the gas hole in the barrel over the course of the barrels life.
They really are a stop gap or band-aid measure to proper engineering.
Thanx fellas. I suspected it blowing the bolt back directly, because of how much more dirtier the casings were.
I'll try with the piston removed, see what happens.
As for the block, I tapped it pass the hole, so as the set-screw would pass over the blow-hole, completely closing it.
The gun does cycle propperly though, and it was a little less jumpy for follow-thru.
I'll try with the piston removed, see what happens.
As for the block, I tapped it pass the hole, so as the set-screw would pass over the blow-hole, completely closing it.
The gun does cycle propperly though, and it was a little less jumpy for follow-thru.
i struggle to understand how blocking the downstream gas with a set screw vs any other mechanism it going to result in additional wear to the barrel. if you want to pay people to do things for you then fine, but better come up with better reasons to call out folks that do it themselves than what you've brought to the table so far.
Hot gas erodes the barrel of every firearm. It also erodes the barrel's gas port and gas system of semi autos.
The vast majority of semi autos are designed to bleed off that hot gas through the port, into a block or regulator, imparting its' force on the piston, and then bleed off through a vent port that is behind the operation of the piston. If you muck with that with a tap or valve, it stands to reason that the gas erosion that normally takes place is going to increase.
You can go digging for the information yourself, but the coles notes is that manufacturers of semi autos such as Colt, Sig, H&K and the like, spend a significant amount of their time getting this stuff right on their designs.
The vast majority of semi autos are designed to bleed off that hot gas through the port, into a block or regulator, imparting its' force on the piston, and then bleed off through a vent port that is behind the operation of the piston. If you muck with that with a tap or valve, it stands to reason that the gas erosion that normally takes place is going to increase.
You can go digging for the information yourself, but the coles notes is that manufacturers of semi autos such as Colt, Sig, H&K and the like, spend a significant amount of their time getting this stuff right on their designs.
The above may be true for a well tuned system from a major manufacturer. That is not necessarily the case for the WK, especially then Gen 1. Some more wear/corrosion and more frequent cleaning may be an even tradeoff to prevent impact wear on the Wk's components and in particular its piston snapping, a known and sometime frequent problem. Heck, how much is the default threaded charging's handles unscrewing and eventual snapping resulting from the high impact force from the overgassing?
Right - so Kodiak uses carbine length gas barrels why? Cheap, and easy to source. The gas length was derived based on an over an abundance of caution to ensure the gas system had enough power to cycle even the poorer .223 ammo out there - steel cased barnul and norinco. That they were over gassed was, I believe, a function of design intent that came direct from Wolverine before the gen ones were even released.
So there you have a stout design without maybe the necessary R&D behind the rest of it - piston, spring, etc. Voila, a system that is not ideal and now prone to breakage.
To throw in a stop valve into that mix isn't the best solution, imho.
Personally, I think ditching the oem barrel and switching to rifle length gas barrel and the TNA rifle length gas system is the way to go, but ymmv.
So there you have a stout design without maybe the necessary R&D behind the rest of it - piston, spring, etc. Voila, a system that is not ideal and now prone to breakage.
To throw in a stop valve into that mix isn't the best solution, imho.
Personally, I think ditching the oem barrel and switching to rifle length gas barrel and the TNA rifle length gas system is the way to go, but ymmv.
^
Agreed, a better long term solution is a longer piston, like the rifle length one on the Sterling R18 or the mid length one on the Crusader Sentinel. The R18 has a multi-part piston, like the original AR180, so it has more give if things go out of alignment and a neoprene rubber bumper on the guide rod plate for the BCG to dissipate it's impact force against, like on the Bushmaster AR or Steyr MPI-69, and it has an adjustable gas block. The Crusader Sentinel's piston has a larger diameter for added strength.
Most of the above options are too expensive or take too much time or technical ability for the average WK Gen 1 user to implement in their $1000 to $1400 firearm. Making your own end plate rubber shock absorber and your own simple adjustable gas block represent to minimum time and dollar solutions for those who don't have much of either to spend on their WK Gen 1. The more extensive changes, or one of the newer firearms, can then be saved for in the long run.
It is still too early to know if the WK Gen 2 is more robust then the Gen 1. We need someone to put at least thousand rounds through it, like when the Crusader/Spectre guys put 1300 round through the Sentinel with the Code of Arms guys.
Agreed, a better long term solution is a longer piston, like the rifle length one on the Sterling R18 or the mid length one on the Crusader Sentinel. The R18 has a multi-part piston, like the original AR180, so it has more give if things go out of alignment and a neoprene rubber bumper on the guide rod plate for the BCG to dissipate it's impact force against, like on the Bushmaster AR or Steyr MPI-69, and it has an adjustable gas block. The Crusader Sentinel's piston has a larger diameter for added strength.
Most of the above options are too expensive or take too much time or technical ability for the average WK Gen 1 user to implement in their $1000 to $1400 firearm. Making your own end plate rubber shock absorber and your own simple adjustable gas block represent to minimum time and dollar solutions for those who don't have much of either to spend on their WK Gen 1. The more extensive changes, or one of the newer firearms, can then be saved for in the long run.
It is still too early to know if the WK Gen 2 is more robust then the Gen 1. We need someone to put at least thousand rounds through it, like when the Crusader/Spectre guys put 1300 round through the Sentinel with the Code of Arms guys.
burnt_servo
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No pics. No paid sub either, as other paid forums just rip me off.
I used sheet rubber from bicycle inner-tubes. I used the return spring plate as a template, and scizzors to cut the rubber out. 2-layers used to make 1/8" of rubber, and 2 thin washers behind the springs, so as they donot eat into the rubber.
I used sheet rubber from bicycle inner-tubes. I used the return spring plate as a template, and scizzors to cut the rubber out. 2-layers used to make 1/8" of rubber, and 2 thin washers behind the springs, so as they donot eat into the rubber.
not certain where you are getting this, but lots of vendors sell firearms with adjustable gas blocks. the adjustment is required to add gas to cycle a dirty gun, and to stop gas to fire rifle grenades. add the civilian/commercial market who may be using a variety of ammo and you have the need to adjust gas. this is not a design flaw or poor engineering. and a bit of research will indicate that the majority of adjustable gas blocks are just a variable obstruction to gas flow. whether it is a set screw or an incrementally-adjustable vaned stopper with detent, it is the same function. i think there are a couple of vendors that sell an adjustable vent-style, but this is rare and counter-intuitive; why vent gas that could be kept behind the bullet? and a third vent (you already have two; the barrel and the gas system) is more unnecessary complication - bad engineering.
Where I'm getting this? Pull your head out and look around...
It is in-vogue with the AR crowd to stop or curtail the gas flow prior to it actuating on the piston (which is essentially the carrier and bolt)
Look at any design other than the AR-15/AR-10.
With few exceptions like the FAL, most have set gas systems or maybe Normal/Adverse or Normal/Adverse/Grenade on older rifles or late model rifles with suppressor/normal/adverse.
Most semi-autos don't have incremental gas settings. I'm arguing it is because that they are properly designed and properly engineered.
Again, the vast majority of these adjustable gas systems out there are for ARs, and really when it boils down to it, it is that these manufacturers are playing on people's vanity and prying money out of their wallets.
Taking .223/5.56 as an example, you are not going to find a factory loaded ammunition that won't run in a properly set up AR, with few exceptions.
Enter calibers like the 6.5 Grendel (which started as a wildcat), and people hand loading, you open a can a worms that people gravitate to all sorts of 'solutions' - an adjustable gas block being one such doohicky.
Now you deviate from the tried and true rifle length gas system on a typical 20" long barrelled AR rifle to a carbine length system on a barrel that is just shy of 20" long and paired with a physical gas piston and you are in uncharted territory.
There is no engineering behind some guy at the bench shooting rounds and adjusting the gas until it 'feels right'.
