is there a difference between a body die and a full length die?

dfraser

dfraser

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
230   0   0
Location
Edmonton
Hi all,

Isn't a body die a full length die without the neck expander/decapper unit?

I don't think that I need to purchase a body for just shoulder bumping, or do I?

I do have a dedicated neck sizer with bushing.

Regards
 
I suggest that you google the question there are tons of threads andarticles about this
I personally dont have any body dies, I just fl bump 2 mils.
 
Kryogen said:
I suggest that you google the question there are tons of threads andarticles about this
I personally dont have any body dies, I just fl bump 2 mils.
Click to expand...

I am hoping you mean .002 thousands of an inch and not 2 mils which is .0787 thousands of an inch. Body dies work great for the occasion when you have neck sized brass for one rifle that won't fit into the chamber of another rifle. It saves you from tearing down your loaded ammo to resize it. If you are just neck sizing there will come a time after 4-5 loadings that the bolt will get a little harder to close. So you can either force the bolt closed and FL resize them the next time around or run them into your body die.
 
A Redding body die is a FL die with no neck. It's fun to call it a shoulder bump die to a Redding tech, you'll get an instant on-phone seminar on dies.;)


"Mils" is sometimes used for "thousandths". Usually not in handloading, but common enough in other areas.
 
Is there a difference, absolutely. The body die has no neck sizing nor depriming function in the die.

Dimensionally, the body die SHOULD be on the max side of dimensions. FL tend to be on the min side of dimensions... wrt to SAAMI and this varies with all chambers so look up the charts if you care.

Think of a Body die as a wide fit shoe vs FL which is a narrow fit shoe. The point of the Body die in a standard SAAMI spec chamber is to not change the taper or dimensions of the fireformed case except to bump the shoulder back enough for easy chambering. Neck sizing is handled in another step with dies specific to the end result the shooter wants.

A FL sizing die will work the brass, typically to min spec, which may be well undersized and that can lead to short case life and less then ideal accuracy.

The variable that many new reloaders have a hard time understanding is that ALL chambers can vary and can vary alot.... so the proper sizing die will also vary depending on what you are trying to achieve vs how big/small the chamber is. The range of tolerance allowed by SAAMI gives manf alot of lattitude wrt to what is in spec.

Custom reamers used in custom rifles can muddy this discussion up alot more.

For accuracy, we do not want to disturb the lower 2/3's of the fireformed case fit with the chamber. Headspace would be 2 to 3 thou shorter then the chamber/lock up. This is great for range and competition BUT leave little leaway if conditions get dirty.

For harsh condition useage, more clearance is usually desired and brass life/accuracy takes a back seat.

So which die to use will depend on application and chamber dimensions. I have a factory Ruger predator in 6.5 CM with the largest CM chamber I have ever seen. The body die acts like a typical FL sizing die and still uses alot of force. I have a hard time getting the fired case into a Lee FL sizing die... sizing with it puts a huge strain on everything. It varies and the best die choice has to be determined with a specific rifle in mind.

YMMV

Jerry
 
maynard said:
I am hoping you mean .002 thousands of an inch and not 2 mils which is .0787 thousands of an inch. Body dies work great for the occasion when you have neck sized brass for one rifle that won't fit into the chamber of another rifle. It saves you from tearing down your loaded ammo to resize it. If you are just neck sizing there will come a time after 4-5 loadings that the bolt will get a little harder to close. So you can either force the bolt closed and FL resize them the next time around or run them into your body die.
Click to expand...

I am hoping you mean 2 thousands of an inch, and not .002 thousands of an inch, as .002 thousands of an inch is quite small ;)
mils = thousands of an inch
2 mils = 2 thousands = .002 inches
 
Kryogen said:
I am hoping you mean 2 thousands of an inch, and not .002 thousands of an inch, as .002 thousands of an inch is quite small ;)
mils = thousands of an inch
2 mils = 2 thousands = .002 inches
Click to expand...

As a tool maker with over 30 years in the trade, 2 mils does not equal .002". Mils is a metric value, 2 mils=.078", not the same.
 
A mil isn't a metric unit, used the way you are using it it's an abbreviation for
One thousandths of a meter which is a metric unit. The next guy might say mil for millilitre or milligram or heaven forbid milliradian and the guy he is working or shooting with probably will know what he's talking about. Heck, I've been to stack another dec on 'er because there's a limit to how many times I'm prepared to say kilodecanewtons in a day. It's all slang.

A mil; used the way he's using it is an actual thing; .001". Carpenters use it all the time since poly vapor-barrier is rated in Mils. Metal can be plated in Mils. I remember sitting through my sister-in-laws practice sales speil 30 years where she claimed there was 10 mm of gold plating on the cheap-ass dangley ear-rings she was flogging to try to get through university. 10 Mils maybe, 10 mms never.:)
 
maynard said:
As a tool maker with over 30 years in the trade, 2 mils does not equal .002". Mils is a metric value, 2 mils=.078", not the same.
Click to expand...

There are different definitions.


from dictionary.com

mil
noun

1.

a unit of length equal to 0.001 of an inch (0.0254 mm), used in measuring the diameter of wires.

2.

a military unit of angular measurement equal to the angle subtended by 1/6400 of a circumference.


3.

(less accurately) the angle subtended by an arc equal to 1/1000 (0.001) of the radius or distance.


4.

(used formerly in pharmaceutical prescriptions) a milliliter.


5.

a former bronze coin of the mandate of Palestine, the 1/1000 part of a pound.

___________________________

Wikipédia:
Units of measurement
Mil, a thousandth of an inch

____________________________________

Mil Thickness: What Does It Mean, and How Do I Measure It?
Blog Entries Geomembranes

Many of DeepRoot’s products are defined by their mil thickness. Our Geomembranes (Water Barrier and Bamboo Barrier), for example, have varying thicknesses of 30, 40 and 60 mil, while our root barriers are all 80 mil thick. But what is a mil?

A mil is a thousandth of an inch — .001 inch. It is a typical manufacturing dimension. When we make a product we specify the thickness as a mil.
 
An interesting thread suddenly got uninteresting...

Edit : Going back on topic, Jerry, i see many Redding body die sales in your near future with all these threads about it lately!
 
MartyK2500 said:
An interesting thread suddenly got uninteresting...

Edit : Going back on topic, Jerry, i see many Redding body die sales in your near future with all these threads about it lately!
Click to expand...

For the average chamber, the body die does offer alot of utility and has proven to be the easiest/most effective way to control case sizing for precision rifles.... with a neck sizer die of course.

In the perfect world, the chamber and dies will be cut from properly speced reamers and we would only need the "FL" sizing die. Brass would be matched to the reamer so expansion would be zip. BUT this level of custom is expensive so most will lean to what is off the shelf and the dimensional tolerance is just something to work around.

The body die works most of the time but sometimes you need to look at other types of dies.. so always remember that dies are just tools. Figure out what is going on with the rifle THEN look at the tools that will make the best ammo you can.

One size rarely fits all...

Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom