Is there such thing as a .22 black rifle?
- Thread starter Wrong Way
- Start date
Wrong Way,
I checked this out with the black rifle mods. They feel the black rifle forum is for centerfire civilian variants of military assault rifles. In their lexicon no rimfire rifle is considered a black rifle, even if 99% of the components of the rifle are identical to the military version.
I don't think that means your rifle cannot be considered a "black rifle" , it just means they don't want rimfires in their forum.
I understand this seems arbitrary but I understand they need to draw a boundary somewhere and the simplest way to do it is to exclude rimfires.
After all, there is a whole separate forum for rimfires. And in here there are plenty of people who know and appreciate the difference between a custom R22 and a squires bingham or a 10/22 with a ramline stock.
There has always been a sort of distain for rimfires among some black rifle guys. Thats because the vast majority of rimfires are cheaply made and cheap to shoot. Maybe because we don't relaod. Maybe they are jealous of our large magazines. Maybe its just natural to prefer what you know. After all a lot of the centerfire hunting guys think the black rifle guys are freaks. The same thing happens in rimfire. The position shooters often see the bench shooters as physically inept, the bench shooters somtimes think the position guys are imprecise, the biathalon guys see the position shooters and benchresters as soft and lazy. Bolt guys think semi guys are crude and unsophisticated can blasters. Collectors cringe when shooters modify their vintage rifles, and open sight guys sometime act a bit superior to those who use telescopes. Hunters and competition shooters alike sneer at the guys who spend thousands customizing 10/22s. And all these guys tend to look down their noses at times at the average rimfire shooter who is just having a good time plinking with his cooey and wants to share his enthusiasm.
I like the fact that this diverse group comes together in rimfire. Most everyone who loves shooting owns or has owned a rimfire. Most kids learn to shoot rimfires. Just because many choose to move on to other types of shooting does not mean rimfire is inferior. If you feel that being sent to rimfire is some sort of insult or demotion think again. Most types of rifles do some things well and other things less well. Rimfires rule. They are the most popular rifles ever made. Rimfire ammo is the most accurate ammo in existance within its intended range. And the fact that there are a huge number of poorly mass produced rimfires does not take away from the fact that many of the finest, most accurate, most beautiful, and most expensive rifles ever made are rimfires.
CGN was created by black rifle guys. Because these black rifle guys love shooting and shooting sports, they generously and wisely made room in these forums for all the other types of hunting and shooting enthusiasts. I'm grateful for that. It has fostered a great community and is helping bring all these diverse groups together with one voice. If they want to reserve a forum just for centerfire ARs, I see no reason not to respect that. Let them have their forum. If they want to call it "Black Rifle", that makes sense to me. If they don't want to know the difference between an R22 and a krinker, too bad for them. The ones who care will come to rimfire and find out.
I checked this out with the black rifle mods. They feel the black rifle forum is for centerfire civilian variants of military assault rifles. In their lexicon no rimfire rifle is considered a black rifle, even if 99% of the components of the rifle are identical to the military version.
I don't think that means your rifle cannot be considered a "black rifle" , it just means they don't want rimfires in their forum.
I understand this seems arbitrary but I understand they need to draw a boundary somewhere and the simplest way to do it is to exclude rimfires.
After all, there is a whole separate forum for rimfires. And in here there are plenty of people who know and appreciate the difference between a custom R22 and a squires bingham or a 10/22 with a ramline stock.
There has always been a sort of distain for rimfires among some black rifle guys. Thats because the vast majority of rimfires are cheaply made and cheap to shoot. Maybe because we don't relaod. Maybe they are jealous of our large magazines. Maybe its just natural to prefer what you know. After all a lot of the centerfire hunting guys think the black rifle guys are freaks. The same thing happens in rimfire. The position shooters often see the bench shooters as physically inept, the bench shooters somtimes think the position guys are imprecise, the biathalon guys see the position shooters and benchresters as soft and lazy. Bolt guys think semi guys are crude and unsophisticated can blasters. Collectors cringe when shooters modify their vintage rifles, and open sight guys sometime act a bit superior to those who use telescopes. Hunters and competition shooters alike sneer at the guys who spend thousands customizing 10/22s. And all these guys tend to look down their noses at times at the average rimfire shooter who is just having a good time plinking with his cooey and wants to share his enthusiasm.
I like the fact that this diverse group comes together in rimfire. Most everyone who loves shooting owns or has owned a rimfire. Most kids learn to shoot rimfires. Just because many choose to move on to other types of shooting does not mean rimfire is inferior. If you feel that being sent to rimfire is some sort of insult or demotion think again. Most types of rifles do some things well and other things less well. Rimfires rule. They are the most popular rifles ever made. Rimfire ammo is the most accurate ammo in existance within its intended range. And the fact that there are a huge number of poorly mass produced rimfires does not take away from the fact that many of the finest, most accurate, most beautiful, and most expensive rifles ever made are rimfires.
CGN was created by black rifle guys. Because these black rifle guys love shooting and shooting sports, they generously and wisely made room in these forums for all the other types of hunting and shooting enthusiasts. I'm grateful for that. It has fostered a great community and is helping bring all these diverse groups together with one voice. If they want to reserve a forum just for centerfire ARs, I see no reason not to respect that. Let them have their forum. If they want to call it "Black Rifle", that makes sense to me. If they don't want to know the difference between an R22 and a krinker, too bad for them. The ones who care will come to rimfire and find out.
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Thanks for sharing your build with us. It looks slick. I can see why you would want the BR opinions as to my understanding it wears the same underwear as *some of theirs*. Why not try again and direct the questions appropriat to them (eg: do you think I chose a good set AR of internals?
This is where my understanding breaks down. I don't know the diffrence between a krinker, Evo, Christie and the Rhineland other than the fact that your's is the coolest one I've seen (as you can see I've been through every frigin mod thread here with no explination). Would somebody please explain how this one is diffrent to a simple Mossburg man?
*= edit for grammer
reg said:
This is where my understanding breaks down. I don't know the diffrence between a krinker, Evo, Christie and the Rhineland other than the fact that your's is the coolest one I've seen (as you can see I've been through every frigin mod thread here with no explination). Would somebody please explain how this one is diffrent to a simple Mossburg man?
*= edit for grammer
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Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thanks for the explanation Reg. If a certain other mod had explained it that way (or any way really) I wouldn't have taken issue. Thanks again.
The big difference is construction. Where the krinker, evo, etc are just stocks that hold a 10/22 (and once a 10/22, always a 10/22) the Rhineland R22 was actually designed and built to look/function like it was right out of the box. The gun is modular, meaning it breaks down into three main groups: The forestock/rail, the upper and the lower. The R22 isn't a "drop in", the upper reciever hilds the bolt, recoil spring, etc., and the lower hiolds an AR15 trigger group.
I guess the difference in a nutshell is that the kits like the krinker and the evo are designed to make a sporting gun look like a black rifle, where the R22 was built to be a black rifle.
Anyway, thanks for the compliments!
Ryan
The big difference is construction. Where the krinker, evo, etc are just stocks that hold a 10/22 (and once a 10/22, always a 10/22) the Rhineland R22 was actually designed and built to look/function like it was right out of the box. The gun is modular, meaning it breaks down into three main groups: The forestock/rail, the upper and the lower. The R22 isn't a "drop in", the upper reciever hilds the bolt, recoil spring, etc., and the lower hiolds an AR15 trigger group.
I guess the difference in a nutshell is that the kits like the krinker and the evo are designed to make a sporting gun look like a black rifle, where the R22 was built to be a black rifle.
Anyway, thanks for the compliments!
Ryan
Ok, so the R22 uses the bolt, recoil spring, and I'm assuming firing pin off and barrel of the 10/22 but the trigger group of an AR15? I was on Rhineland's website and it only has stocks listed. Could I drop a 10/22 in their stock and worry about the AR15 trigger assembly when I have some more money? Also intrested in what mod you had to do to the mag/stock to make it fit (it mentions that it has some issues on their website).
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Nope. The R22 is a production rifle, not a kit for the 10/22. Originally RA used a 10/22 bolt and firing pin, but ended up creating their own bolt. The barrel is not 10/22 either (The R22 barrel is threaded into the reciever, where the 10/22 uses a locking clamp) The only thing the R22 has in common with the 10/22 is the ability to use the 25 round aftermarket mags...that's it.
They do (did) however make drop in stocks for 10/22's, but thats all they are. The entire 10/22 including the trigger group remains the same.....kinda like the "krinker plinker". From what I understand these are no longer available.
They do (did) however make drop in stocks for 10/22's, but thats all they are. The entire 10/22 including the trigger group remains the same.....kinda like the "krinker plinker". From what I understand these are no longer available.
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powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
So whats the point of a "black" style .22 rimfire?
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
powder burner said:
Umm...whats the point of a 5 round neutered C7/M16 wannabe?...To shoot paper (And the LCF). Same reason I bought my AR-15, to shoot paper and put soccer moms into cardiac arrest
Thats just like asking "whats the point of puting a stevens in a fancy laminate stock? Isn't that kinda like putting a 5000 dollar stereo in a 500 dollar civic ?"
I'm pretty sure the paper can't tell wether it has .221 or .223 holes in it...but the bank account sure can.
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powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
HAHA
I was a simple question not directed to insult anyone. There I go hurting someones feelings again
I was a simple question not directed to insult anyone. There I go hurting someones feelings again
- Location
- North Vancouver
Both the pot AND the kettle are calling that rifle black!
Black rifle forum is on snobby side I agree. Not entirely but it is there. Mixed with a touch of errogancy. Why? Not one over there ever interested how accurate his black spetsnaz moddafokka rifle is. I never got educated comment or advice overthere. I also got an impression most black gun owners like their toys for how they look.
KyleSchenk
CGN Regular
Some pics of mine.
Whats the point? The more guns to shoot, the better the way I see it. I bought it because it was different as far as .22's in general. Also the fact going to school is kinda hard on the wallet these days and its a quarter the price of an AR15. It just loves the cheeper Federal bulk packs as well its too bad nobody carried on production after Armi Jager kicked it.
Heres some pics of my AP74. ( I gotta nice mess going on in my basement eh)
Whats the point? The more guns to shoot, the better the way I see it. I bought it because it was different as far as .22's in general. Also the fact going to school is kinda hard on the wallet these days and its a quarter the price of an AR15. It just loves the cheeper Federal bulk packs as well
its too bad nobody carried on production after Armi Jager kicked it. Heres some pics of my AP74. ( I gotta nice mess going on in my basement eh
)
Actually, if the AR-180B was a variant of the AR-15 it would be classified as restricted, as ALL AR-15 variants are restricted by name.
The Armi Jager & Mitchell M-16 look alikes were originally classified as restricted due to their cosmetic similarity to the AR-15/M-16. However, since neither shares anything remotely similar to the AR-15 operating system and there is no interchangeability of parts, that classification was successfully challenged and they were re-classified as non-restricted.
Nice job on the RA build Wrongway! Its a toss-up as to whether it would qualify as a "black rifle" but I think its found a much better home in the Rimfire Forum. It'll certainly be appreciated more. Its too bad Rhineland Arms couldn't make a go of their manufacturing operation. I think the design could've had a lot of potential as it was further refined.
