Is this a safe load for an M14?

[slushee]

This is posted as a Youth load on Hodgdon's Website:

Bullet: 125 grain Nosler BT
Powder: 38 grains of H4895
Velocity: 2592 fps
31,600 CUP

I am curious if this load will cycle the action and run okay in a gas gun like the Norinco M14s or if it is only good in a bolt action .. any thoughts?

 

[roberti11]

I think that it would be quite safe.

The standard load for an M14, Sierra BTHP #2200 168 gn over 41.5gn of IMR4895, gives a pressure of 47000psi, and Mvel 2550fps. So you are way under this, the only way to see if it cycles is to try it.

If you want to get close to 47,000psi then you will want to look at:.308, 125, Nosler BalTip 30125, and work up to IMR 4895, 46gn, this will give you 46,500psi and 2900fps.

 

[slushee]

Hey roberti11! Thats pretty well what I was thinking. I am basically looking for a close range (up to 100 meters) load that has as little recoil as possible and I think this recipie is it. The only thing I wonder is if it will cycle the action and just as you said, the only way I'll know is to just try it.

I'll let you know how it goes, i'm putting the bullets together now. If it does not cycle the action properly I'll open up my Lee handbook and start at their recommended starting load of 45 grains.

 

[t-star]

it might not matter how much powder you throw at it,( within limits, of course) the bullet may simply too light to cycle- i've run into this a couple of times with the 130's using 748- the m14et al operate within a envelope, the top end of which is the 175( although we know it's actually 168) smk and the bottom is a 147- when i was using the 130's even though i was at the top load, it still took an extra 'bump' every 2nd or 3rd round to go into battery- went back to "factory" 150's( again give or take) and no more problems
and this rifle was well worn in, not a new one

 

[slushee]

Okay, for those of us keeping score, here is a range report using 10 rounds at 38 grains of powder, and 45 grains of powder.

First the 45 Grains of IMR 4895.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/slushee1234/target1.jpg

as you can see, not a bad group. The first 5 rounds were off paper due to having to re-zero using this new round. Here is a pic of the spent brass..

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/slushee1234/4-1.jpg

Brass looks clean, no cycling issues and the group was okay, but nothing to write home about. I must say the recoil was very light compared to the 168 grains bullets I have been using.


Okay, now for the 38 grains of powder. First, when I fired them, I heard a very pronounced cycling action sound. I also felt almost no push against my shoulder. I did not experience any cycling issues thus I do not know if the cycling sound I heard was something happening that shouldn't happen, or if the bang was so low that I could hear the action where I couldn't before.

Here is the groupings..

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/slushee1234/target2.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/slushee1234/target3.jpg

Not bad even though its only 50 yards..

The only other issue worries me. Here is a pic of the spent brass..

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/slushee1234/3-1.jpg

Notice there is a LOT of carbon on the outside of the neck/shoulder AND to my surprise, a crap load of carbon in the rim part. My only idea on this would be that there is not enough pressure to make the case 'pressure seal' during firing in the chamber. I also noted a lot of carbon in the action of my rifle after firing which reenforces my idea of the brass not pressure sealing right.

Comments?

From here I think I will make up 50 rounds as follows .. 10 rounds at 40 grains, 10 rounds at 41 grains, 10 rounds at 42 grains .. and so on until 45 grains.. Shoot them and see what groups best. But as it stands, I do not think I will load 38 grains again.

 

[Northman999]

Could be that your light load is not expanding the neck enough to seal it off against the chamber, and therefore you're getting carbon farther back, and in more quantity than usual. I think the is the most likely cause of this. If you loaded up to about 41 grains you'd likely see this minimized, if it bothers you.

 

[medicstimpy]

You're probably going to have to build the load up to over 41.5gr of H4895 to get the M14 to cycle properly. I've been playing with 113gr FMJ bullets and the Norchinko wouldn't cycle below that amount.

Probably somewhere around 43gr would give the best results for that weight bullet.

 

[rnbra-shooter]

Okay, for those of us keeping score, here is a range report using 10 rounds at 38 grains

The only other issue worries me. Here is a pic of the spent brass..

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/slushee1234/3-1.jpg

Notice there is a LOT of carbon on the outside of the neck/shoulder AND to my surprise, a crap load of carbon in the rim part. My only idea on this would be that there is not enough pressure to make the case 'pressure seal' during firing in the chamber. I also noted a lot of carbon in the action of my rifle after firing which reenforces my idea of the brass not pressure sealing right.

Comments?

Yes, that's correct. You might also find that the primers are protruding somewhat, even though you seated them below flush when you made the ammo. This happens on low pressure rounds, not enough pressure is developed to drive the case back fully against the bolt.

The Nosler .308 125BT is a really nice bullet, I've loaded it for my .308 Win bolt gun, it is as accurate as match ammo, and it is very pleasant to shoot. At our open house a month ago, a nine year old kid preferred some of my old 125BTs over my other 155 ammo.

If you want light recoil, and (probably) very good accuracy, stick with those bullets, loaded to modest velocities. You might find it more convenient to use as fast a rifle powder as possible, in order to generate higher pressures, so you don't have the hassles of very low pressure loads (the soot that you have seen, and also that each firing will likely be making the case's headspace dimension shorter; at some point they might no longer fire the primers reliably).

I looked on Hodgdon's web site, and see loading data indicated for Benchmark, H322, and H4198. Their start load for H4198 is 36.0 grains, yielding 2841fps and 46,600 CUP. If you have H4198 you might find that 34.0 grains will produce enough pressure to seal your cases nicely, and there's a good chance you'll also get enough gas produced to reliably cycle your action (though you'll have to determine this yourself; however the fact that your light load of H4895 cycled the action reliably, is promising)