is this an AK Variant?

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Will we ever get our hands on this or will this be labeled as an AK variant and be prohibited? If not any dealers plan on bringing it in?

http://www.guns.com/2014/06/24/sig-prepping-556xi-russian-for-launch-with-giveaway/
 
wait and see what happens with the swiss arms rifles, the RCMP has ruled them as a 550 variant so if that is true and the conservative government returns them to non restricted status all other 550 variants should be the same as a legal precedent will have already been made.
 
Good to see lots of 7.62x39 variants entering the US market, that will hopefully lead to lots of bullet configurations for the RED rifle guys. Maybe even a 200 grain bush hunting round!
 
Brian46 said:
wait and see what happens with the swiss arms rifles, the RCMP has ruled them as a 550 variant so if that is true and the conservative government returns them to non restricted status all other 550 variants should be the same as a legal precedent will have already been made.
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Not necessarily. It'll likely be like the NR Valmet rifles where only a few specific rifles are exempted from the prohibition order.
 
Ar180shooter said:
Not necessarily. It'll likely be like the NR Valmet rifles where only a few specific rifles are exempted from the prohibition order.
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I would pay to see what a court would say. Remember the firearms lab has already made the 550 variant ruling on the swiss arms, that paperwork exists and is not going to disappear. Without them saying they were wrong and incompetent in classifying firearms there really is no way out of it at this point that does not leave it open to a court challenge. No such ruling ever existed for the Valmet, it was exempted because of the government supplying those rifles to the natives years prior
 
Brian46 said:
I would pay to see what a court would say. Remember the firearms lab has already made the 550 variant ruling on the swiss arms, that paperwork exists and is not going to disappear. Without them saying they were wrong and incompetent in classifying firearms there really is no way out of it at this point that does not leave it open to a court challenge. No such ruling ever existed for the Valmet, it was exempted because of the government supplying those rifles to the natives years prior
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Perhaps you misunderstand the situation? The Valmet Hunter and M78 are AK47 variants. They are not prohibited because they are named exempt. This doesn't change that they are AK variants. Similarly, if the OIC naming the Sig 550 as prohibited were to be altered to something along the lines of "the firearm known as the Sig 550 and Sig 551 Carbine, it's named and unnamed variants except for the Swiss Arms Clasic Green, Classic Green Carbine, etc.", the situation of the variants would be resolved without legalizing firearms that were prohibited before this fiasco.
 
Ar180shooter said:
Perhaps you misunderstand the situation? The Valmet Hunter and M78 are AK47 variants. They are not prohibited because they are named exempt. This doesn't change that they are AK variants. Similarly, if the OIC naming the Sig 550 as prohibited were to be altered to something along the lines of "the firearm known as the Sig 550 and Sig 551 Carbine, it's named and unnamed variants except for the Swiss Arms Clasic Green, Classic Green Carbine, etc.", the situation of the variants would be resolved without legalizing firearms that were prohibited before this fiasco.
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Perhaps you misunderstand the situation?

The SAN rifles have already been ruled a 550 variant and prohibited (RCMP firearms lab documentation) This never happened with the valmet. Reversing that decision now can only be done by the RCMP claiming they made a mistake or it opens the door for a legal challange if it is returned to non restricted status by the federal government without any retraction of the original RCMP ruling by the firearms lab.

This creates a problem either way for the firearms lab because they are supposed to be the final word as to what is classed and how, admitting to incompetence is not really an option for them unless they are willing to lose that power.
 
Brian46 said:
Perhaps you misunderstand the situation?

The SAN rifles have already been ruled a 550 variant and prohibited (RCMP firearms lab documentation) This never happened with the valmet. Reversing that decision now can only be done by the RCMP claiming they made a mistake or it opens the door for a legal challange if it is returned to non restricted status by the federal government without any retraction of the original RCMP ruling by the firearms lab.

This creates a problem either way for the firearms lab because they are supposed to be the final word as to what is classed and how, admitting to incompetence is not really an option for them unless they are willing to lose that power.
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No, what you don't understand is how the system works. The RCMP firearms lab determinered that the SAN rifles are Sig 550 variants, and therefore fall within the definition of a prohibited firearm. What parliament can do is change the definition of a prohibited firearm so that the SAN rifles do not meet the definition of a prohibited firearm. This doesn't effect the RCMP decision that the SAN is a Sig 550 variant, nor does it require a reversal of the RCMP decision, only a change in result because of a change in rules, so to speak.
 
Ar180shooter said:
No, what you don't understand is how the system works. The RCMP firearms lab determinered that the SAN rifles are Sig 550 variants, and therefore fall within the definition of a prohibited firearm. What parliament can do is change the definition of a prohibited firearm so that the SAN rifles do not meet the definition of a prohibited firearm. This doesn't effect the RCMP decision that the SAN is a Sig 550 variant, nor does it require a reversal of the RCMP decision, only a change in result because of a change in rules, so to speak.
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and that opens up the door to a legal challenge of the prohibition of the entire 550 line. Certain models of the valmet were never ruled by the firearms lab as an ak variant. The cases are entirely different.

How do you suppose parliament will make one 550 variant un prohibited without having to do the same with all 550 variants without facing a legal battle from gun owners?
 
Brian46 said:
and that opens up the door to a legal challenge of the prohibition of the entire 550 line. Certain models of the valmet were never ruled by the firearms lab as an ak variant. The cases are entirely different.

How do you suppose parliament will make one 550 variant un prohibited without having to do the same with all 550 variants without facing a legal battle from gun owners?
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The Valmets are AK variants, there's no question about that. They are named as variants exempted from the OIC. What would be the legal challenge mounted by gun owners be, exactly? There's nothing we could do after they exempted the Classic Green that we can't do now. It's well within the powers of parliament to reclassify firearms. What this does do is give us political leverage and a solid example of how arbitrary and nonsensical the OIC prohibition system is, but this is something we fight with in the political arena, not the legal one.
 
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That thing looks beautiful, I really hope it makes it here if and when the swissarms nonsense is sorted out. Because I want one.
 
Ar180shooter said:
There's nothing we could do after they exempted the Classic Green that we can't do now. It's well within the powers of parliament to reclassify firearms.
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No, there is no formerley prohibited variant of a 550 yet, so it is a wait and see game with the SAN if it remains a variant of the 550 and stays in civilian hands as a NR.

The difference here is that an OIC will be an exemption after the fact unlike the valmet, if they undo one 550 variant there is a legal argument as to how/why one variants status was reversed and not all the others.
 
Brian46 said:
No, there is no formerley prohibited variant of a 550 yet, so it is a wait and see game with the SAN if it remains a variant of the 550 and stays in civilian hands as a NR.

The difference here is that an OIC will be an exemption after the fact unlike the valmet, if they undo one 550 variant there is a legal argument as to how/why one variants status was reversed and not all the others.
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The SAN is a 550 variant. Legislation can't change this.

What is that legal argument? Any decision to table legislation that returns the SAN rifles to NR status is a political one. There are no legal grounds to challenge certain Sig 550 variants remaining as prohibited firearms unless you challenge the constitutionality of Section 117.15 of the Criminal Code. This would affect all prohibited firearms, and any action on the SAN issue by the CPC would have no impact on the challenge, apart from a s.74 hearing being initiated by the revocation of a registration certificate that could be grounds to launching a constitutional challenge.
 
Ar180shooter said:
The SAN is a 550 variant. Legislation can't change this.

What is that legal argument? Any decision to table legislation that returns the SAN rifles to NR status is a political one. There are no legal grounds to challenge certain Sig 550 variants remaining as prohibited firearms unless you challenge the constitutionality of Section 117.15 of the Criminal Code. This would affect all prohibited firearms, and any action on the SAN issue by the CPC would have no impact on the challenge, apart from a s.74 hearing being initiated by the revocation of a registration certificate that could be grounds to launching a constitutional challenge.
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we will have to wait and see how/if the problem is fixed, the SAN was considered a 540 variant before this started.
 
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