Is this normal for a new gun

Several years ago I knew a guy who purchased a brand new 391 and got upset after he got home and discovered that it had been fired but the fact is that they are all test fired for function at the Beretta factory before they're shipped.

As for the chokes, I'd think they should all be extended or all be flush and not some of each. Normally target guns will come with extended tubes and hunting guns will come with flush tubes.
 
For low end, super mass produced firearms, yes, that's common. All manufacturing is in a race to the bottom. QA checks and TLC in the packaging stage are high labour cost activities that quickly drive up the cost past a competitive price point. Its the same reasons why dealers can't really afford to 100% inspect and correct any defaults before the product goes out the door.

As long as everything that was promised is there, and serviceable, that counts as a win in this day and age.
 
As for a bit of barrel fouling, remember that any country with proof laws, such as Italy, require the gun to be fired at a proof house before being sold (this is over and above any test firing the factory may do). When I visited the proof house in Val Trompia and watched them proof Beretta's , I can assure you there was nobody even remotely equipped with a cleaning rod !
 
Yes it is common for guns to get test fired at the factory. But they do not come to the retailer with dirty barrels and mismatched chokes in my experience. Sounds to me like this gun has been used by the retailer you bought it from. I would suggest confronting your retailer with your findings.
 
Interesting that this is common practice, you would think running a bore sake or whatever would be advisable and easy.

BJP said:
As for a bit of barrel fouling, remember that any country with proof laws, such as Italy, require the gun to be fired at a proof house before being sold (this is over and above any test firing the factory may do). When I visited the proof house in Val Trompia and watched them proof Beretta's , I can assure you there was nobody even remotely equipped with a cleaning rod !
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mrgoat said:
Yes it is common for guns to get test fired at the factory. But they do not come to the retailer with dirty barrels and mismatched chokes in my experience. Sounds to me like this gun has been used by the retailer you bought it from. I would suggest confronting your retailer with your findings.
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Not true . They sure do
Cheers
 
3macs1 said:
Not true . They sure do
Cheers
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Yup. They do.
And if your're not cool with that hand them right back across the counter.
I've seen it now twice in high end semi auto Euro guns "new in the case".
The gas systems look like they've done dozens of rounds and never been cleaned.
 
3macs1 said:
Not true . They sure do
Cheers
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Well 3 macs I have had new guns come with dirty barrels etc. from packing grease but never from powder fouling. Both rifles and shot guns. Any new guns I have seen at shops that had powder residue is from being used by weekend warriors at the shop, as they say for customer demonstration purposes. But I have never ever taken possession of a brand new gun dirty from powder residue. I guess I have either been lucky or haven't bought enough new guns. Keep in mind a gun like a car is considered new until it has been retailed by dealer. Hence the car dealer term demonstrator with several hundred miles on it that you get next to no real discount on. Guns I strongly suspect they just retail them out the door as new dirty or not. So no I am not comfortable with that. If I am buying new it dam well better be unused new except for a factory test shots. My thoughts and experiences anyways.
 
guntech said:
I would ask the shop about the tubes? Is it normal to have one extended and two flush tubes with the gun from the factory? I don't think it is...
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If its the new A400 Extreme Plus, then yes its normal. The Benelli SBE III includes flush and extend chokes as well. I don't know if Beretta changed the chokes they give out to the rest of their new guns. The Xcel is a sporting gun so it should have been all extended chokes.

OP, when they opened the case to the Xcel, was the paper it was wrapped in perfect with no wrinkles? Beretta wraps the guns a certain way so they know if someone took the gun out other than them from the factory. If someone re wrapped it, it wouldn't look anywhere near as perfect as Beretta does it from the factory.
 
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mrgoat said:
Well 3 macs I have had new guns come with dirty barrels etc. from packing grease but never from powder fouling. Both rifles and shot guns. Any new guns I have seen at shops that had powder residue is from being used by weekend warriors at the shop, as they say for customer demonstration purposes. But I have never ever taken possession of a brand new gun dirty from powder residue. I guess I have either been lucky or haven't bought enough new guns. Keep in mind a gun like a car is considered new until it has been retailed by dealer. Hence the car dealer term demonstrator with several hundred miles on it that you get next to no real discount on. Guns I strongly suspect they just retail them out the door as new dirty or not. So no I am not comfortable with that. If I am buying new it dam well better be unused new except for a factory test shots. My thoughts and experiences anyways.
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Remingtons, winchesters, rugers to name a few I remember all did it at the factory
My dad owned a small gun shop so yes I many have been exposed to more than the average bear
Cheers
 
I shot skeet in the early 70's with Don Epps. When the Win SX-1 came out I bought a field model. Then a skeet version from him. I had issues with the skeet version short stroking and not ejecting the empty now and then. Don and I were at a midwinter shoot in St. Catharine's and the SX was giving me grief at that shoot. He seen my frustration and said he would refund every cent towards anything else I wanted from the store. I had put about 2K rounds down the barrel of the SX already. The following week I took out a Browning Citori and a Win 101 in skeet versions from the store to the club behind the store and put about 100 rds. a piece trough them. I liked the 101 and came back to the store and traded in the SX-1 on it. Both the Citori and the SX-1 skeet went back on the gun rack for sale as new from what I seen of the hang tag pricing. I had thoroughly cleaned the SX before hand as I new it wasn't coming back home so it looked new.
The Winchester rep at the time also shot at the club and he shot an SX-1 skeet and so did Don both those guns always seemed to work flawlessly. When the rep found out I traded in my SX for a 101 and why he came to me and said that the early Skeet version SX-1 had a slightly smaller gas port that would at times cause ejection issues and that both his and Don's gun had, had there gas ports drilled a hair larger down at Cobourg , and that Don probably wasn't even aware his had been done before being shipped up. Mine apparently had slipped out the door unaltered.
So yes from personal experience things go on behind the scenes that are best left unsaid for 40 + years. Don and Elwood have long since passed on and Epps is under completely new ownership, has been for many years.
 
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I have bought three 870 Police models in the past couple of years. And those three guns were bought from 3 different dealers. One was even a special order that I had to wait 4 month to get it.

Now, for all those 3 guns ... the barrels showed heavy leading and powder residue. All three guns had dirty barrels out of the box.
All three guns had non polished barrels ... meaning, I could stick my little finger into the muzzle and I could feel the tool marks.
And as a consequence the leading was heavy! It took me hours of cleaning and polishing to get those barrels into a state where no more lead smear would come out.

All three guns shot 1oz slugs to point of aim at 50 meters. I did not have to do any sight adjustments.

Now, these are the facts ... I let you come to the conclusion!

p.s.: All three guns were brand new ...
 
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0faustus0 said:
I have bought three 870 Police models in the past couple of years. And those three guns were bought from 3 different dealers. One was even a special order that I had to wait 4 month to get it.

Now, for all those 3 guns ... the barrels showed heavy leading and powder residue. All three guns had dirty barrels out of the box.
All three guns had non polished barrels ... meaning, I could stick my little finger into the muzzle and I could feel the tool marks.
And as a consequence the leading was heavy! It took me hours of cleaning and polishing to get those barrels into a state where no more lead smear would come out.

All three guns shot 1oz slugs to point of aim at 50 meters. I did not have to do any sight adjustments.

Now, these are the facts ... I let you come to the conclusion!
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Two things from your post become obvious to me. A) Remington does not make guns like they used to. and B) your shotguns had all been deer hunting as they had been sighted in at the very least. My conclusion anyways. Still doesn't make it right though. When a fella buys a new gun it should be new except for factory testing. Your experience would be like buying a supposedly new truck and there is several thousand kilometers on the odometer. The oil needs changed, air filter is dirty, box and tail gate is marked up and there are fast food wrappers under the seat.
 
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mrgoat said:
No Sir, all three guns were "Supposedly" brand new. And technically since they had probably never been retailed before the dealer considers them new.
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Ohhhh ... right, I forgot about that ... the National Firearms Finger Printing Agency. Every imported firearm has to go through them. They test fire every imported gun and in order to establish the unique firearms profile. They create a unique firearms "finger print" for every gun entering the country. Based on its unique profile, every gun can be identified by its sound imprint and the tool marks imprint on the projectile. And thanks to the FFPA our guns get sighted in when they enter the country ....

Totally forgot about that. That would explain why 3 brand new 870s from 3 different Canadian dealers arrive here with dirty barrels.... and sighted in ...

Thanks for reminding me.
 
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3macs, my only point here is that sometimes things go on behind the scenes that perhaps should not have and not only in the gun world. Obviously some folks have received new guns dirty and folks like myself have not. I was just relating some of my experiences and thoughts based on those experiences.
Epps was a Winchester distributor if memory serves, and Winchester/Cooey Canada was based out of Cobourg Ont. so yes I could see your family business getting many guns through them. Elwood and his son Don were good fellas, they always treated me well.

I certainly did not mean to upset anyone with my commentary and opinions. But it appears I may have inadvertently done that. There is nothing further I wish to contribute on this thread except to wish you a great day and I hope fine spring weather has finally arrived on the east coast.
 
I certainly did not mean to upset anyone with my commentary and opinions. But it appears I may have inadvertently done that. There is nothing further I wish to contribute on this thread except to wish you a great day and I hope fine spring weather has finally arrived on the east coast.[/QUOTE]

IMO sharing thoughts and experiences are cool. Clearly naming an individual(s) or specific shop that allowed gun(s) after being used to be resold for new is not. Especially a shop that has such a good reputation for many years . I am removing my post and IMO it may not be a bad idea to generalize yours
Those guns like you mention the old man sold as display models and the customer was clearly told it could have been used / fired but it was never sold as new or priced as such
New is only once
Cheers
 
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mrgoat said:
3macs, my only point here is that sometimes things go on behind the scenes that perhaps should not have and not only in the gun world. Obviously some folks have received new guns dirty and folks like myself have not. I was just relating some of my experiences and thoughts based on those experiences.
Epps was a Winchester distributor if memory serves, and Winchester/Cooey Canada was based out of Cobourg Ont. so yes I could see your family business getting many guns through them. Elwood and his son Don were good fellas, they always treated me well.

I certainly did not mean to upset anyone with my commentary and opinions. But it appears I may have inadvertently done that. There is nothing further I wish to contribute on this thread except to wish you a great day and I hope fine spring weather has finally arrived on the east coast.
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Mrgoat, we are all here to learn and share. But blunt statements of truth like "No Sir, all three guns were "Supposedly" brand new" don't really help anybody. Because you are expressing an opinion based on your experience .... and your opinion is not the truth! The same as my opinion is not the truth!

Nobody knows what the truth is behind the three 870 Police shotguns that I bought. I don't know what the truth is! And with that I would totally agree with you ... "my only point here is that sometimes things go on behind the scenes".

But I know the following:

- I bought three 870 Police brand new from 3 different dealers and all three came with dirty barrels and sighted in.
- In the same time period I bought one brand new 870 Wingmaster (from another dealer) ... and that one had a clean barrel ... and seemed to be polished.
- I bought two brand new 870 Express models (again two other dealers) ... and both had clean barrels.

Now, I don't know what happened behind the scenes ... and we can all interpret the facts as we wish:

1.) For some it seems three different dealers went hunting with the three 870Ps before they were being sold as brand new.
2.) Others might believe that the FFPA (don't even try to Google that one) fired all those guns, but only cleaned the Express and Wingmaster ones.
3.) Some of us might believe that the CIA planted powder and lead residue on purpose on those three 870Ps, and in order to frame an innocent civilian for some crime.
4.) Or maybe the Martians are testing our shotguns while in transit from the factory to the dealer ... and to prepare for an invasion. Who knows?
5.) Or maybe ... just simply ... Remington sells the 870 Police model to government agencies that have a requirement that the guns leave the factory sighted in. And maybe because Remington has to appease those government agencies, they try to save some bucks by not polishing the barrels ... and not cleaning the guns.

I let you decide what is the most plausible explanation of what happened behind the scenes to my three 870 Police shotguns.... and maybe the most plausible is not even listed here ... If you have a better explanation ... then please chime in. But please ... don't tell me it is the "truth" ...
 
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