Is this project feasible for a beginner?

[juanvaldez]

So I have this idea of one day building my dream rifle (45-70 roller), that looks something like this:

http://www.classicgunsinc.com/images/AFTERside.jpg

I have a swede action from tradex and will be ordering wood soon but have not decided how much I want to do in terms of carving the stocks. I will likely order a barrel from Track of the Wolf.

I want to do the entire project myself as a learning experience including threading and chambering the new bbl and doing all the metal finishing work. I have a well equipped wood working shop and am planning on purchasing a lathe as my first metal working tool. I have completed a couple pre-carved longrifles with some success and feel confident in my abilities to learn the skills necessary to rebarrel and refinish a roller. I'm in the process of building a barbecue forge to start playing with case color hardening.

I guess the ease of getting information over the internet make it seem possible for a fairly handy beginner to tackle a project like this. But my question is am I getting in over my head? I'm not in a rush to get it done but want to take the time to learn each step as I go along even if the project takes a year or more to complete. I realize economically sending the project to a smith would probably make more sense but was already planning on a lathe this year anyway and love messing around with guns.

I'd love to hear of any personal experiences any of you have.

Cheers

 

[mooncoon]

Particularly if the barrel has square threads, I would suggest making a couple of practice blanks first, to get the hang of threading. Square threads seem to go from too tight to loose almost instantly. Also when you drill the tang screw hole, put a tapered point in your drill press vice and center the drill on the point. The balance the stock on the point so that you are drilling towards the point rather than trying to eyeball the angle of the hole just right. You can drill a bit undersize half way and reverse then all the way with the finish drill.

cheers mooncoon

 

[Allen Gun Works]

I agree with Mooncoon on this one. Make some practice blanks and make sure your threading technique is down, then tackle the barrel. This will save you lots of money in the meantime.

To answer your question, No it is not too much to tackle if you take it slow and only do the work you require once you are confident in your abilities. It's the only way to learn.

 

[juanvaldez]

Particularly if the barrel has square threads, I would suggest making a couple of practice blanks first, to get the hang of threading. Square threads seem to go from too tight to loose almost instantly. Also when you drill the tang screw hole, put a tapered point in your drill press vice and center the drill on the point. The balance the stock on the point so that you are drilling towards the point rather than trying to eyeball the angle of the hole just right. You can drill a bit undersize half way and reverse then all the way with the finish drill.
cheers mooncoon

Thanks...good trick with the the tapered point. Thats 1 of 1000 questions answered!! I have along way to go but am looking forward to the project. Haven't found my lathe yet so thats one crucial step in getting it set up with tooling and getting some threading practice.

With regard to the receiver threads. I thought I recalled reading that sometimes the barrels were cut off on these old rollers and new threads cut into the stub that was left inside the receiver? Does this sound like a better option rather then trying to cut to the existing threads?

 

[tiriaq]

Using the stub and fitting a new barrel to it has been done. Watch your diameters.

 

[doubleman]

juanvaldez
When you buy the lathe mke sure you get a 4 jaw chuck as you will need it to work with the ocatagon barrel. Also a lathe with a 2"min hole through the headstock will save you a lot of hassle.
Regards

 

[trevj]

Using the old barrel stub is OK if the barrel is not recoverable for other uses.

Threading the new barrel is pretty near the same amount of work.

Once you have a lathe, get some 12L14 hex stock to practice threading on. Square threads are not a whole lot more difficult to cut, but the tool is a lot more fragile, and is a minor PITA to grind. Must account for the helix angle! Off the top of my head, you are dealing with a square tipped tool, 0.041" wide. with a couple degrees of "lean" on it to account for the helix angle of the thread. Not impossible to make, but frustrating, if you have not developed some skills at the grinder.

How much are you budgeting for the lathe? What size range will fit in your shop? What is your tolerance for rebuilding the machine once it's home?
If you are really lucky or persistent, you may find a decent machine with a spindle bore as big as 2 inches, at a price that seems affordable. Remember to factor in the prices of the tooling and accessories, if they are not included. At a bare minimum look for a machine that has a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck, a steady rest, and a tool post with appropriate tool holders. Threading by means of a gearbox, rather than loose gears is pretty nice to have, if not a requirement.

A quick change tool post is really nice to have, as are a follower rest and a taper attachment.

Lots of barrels have been threaded and chambered in lathes a lot smaller than those with a 2 inch bore. Take a look at the specs of what is out there, and see how much difference in size the machines are by the time they get a spindle that large, and see if they are either available or affordable. If you are not planning on working on barrels for a Browning .50 Cal, you can do with a lot smaller.

I would suggest that you look at a 1 3/8" bore as the minimum size though. This is the bore size that is the minimum that will accept a 5C collet directly in the spindle. Collets are really nice for small work like screws and pins, and allow you to work close in without having to worry about chuck jaws.

Take a look at the specs of a South Bend Heavy 10 lathe and see if they look about the right size. These were a pretty common lathe in gunsmiths shops around North America, as they were affordable, as well as capable.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page4.html

Also, look at the specs of a Colchester Student, or a Colchester Master lathes, also sold under the Clausing-Colchester name on this side of the pond.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/colchester/index.html

The lathes.co.uk site is a great reference for looking up specs on older machines, though it does not get into the larger, more industrial sized so much.

Cheers
Trev

 

[juanvaldez]

Looking at spending no more then 3000$ on a lathe plus building up to the tooling over time. Seen a few new machines by grizzly/busy bee that fall in the right price range but unsure of what to look for still doing some research.

 

[tiriaq]

The question of new or used has been discussed to death. I bought used, a Canadian made Standard Modern 1340. Its spindle bore is just shy of 1 1/2"; it will handle most anything I will ever need to do. Weighs about 1600 lbs. One of the 1236 imports will handle most any gunsmithing job you are likely to do. I know of two first class smiths who are using KBC "Grip" brand lathes (Oriental imports). Their work is just fine. Keep your eyes open, you might find a good machine within your price range. The more tooling included, the better. Buying tooling gets expensive.
Sometimes a larger used machine is cheaper than a smaller one. The challenge of moving it scares off buyers. Also, be careful with power requirements. Many ex-industrial machines have 3 phose electrics.

 

[mooncoon]

I have a Myford super 7 with a 5/8" spindle bore that I am quite happy with. I think far more important than bore is the bed length; would suggest targeting for being able to turn up to 36" between centers since many single shots use barrels in the 30 -32" length range.
I also think that instead of having the barrel inside the spindle while threading and chambering, you are better threading out near the tail stock with the whole barrel outside of the headstock. That way you don't have to worry about your jaws being perfectly ground which is definitely a concern with second hand lathes. You can also thread a barrel using a dog and face plate rather than using a 4 jaw chuck. The 4 jaw is more handy for turning things away from center such as the cross pins when making those tiny little S links that join the mainspring to the tumbler on english shotguns.
The dog and face plate allows you to take the barrel out of the lathe and check the thread fit then put it back in and still have your thread counter correctly indexed.

cheers mooncoon

 

[Allen Gun Works]

I use the KBC lathe and really like it. I think it is the GRIP 1236, I would have to look. It is just under $3000 I think when it is on sale.

If you want to buy used, you can try a place just north of Toronto called Ford Machinery. They had a bunch of old Standard Modern high school lathes in there last year. They usually have some good deals.