Is this the Enfield I'm wanting?

.22LRGUY

.22LRGUY

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Hey guys-the Enfield urges have resurfaced, but having never owned one the confidence level is low. I've been watching the EE for a couple of years and see the types of concerns buyers might have based on the descriptions I've seen offered. Based on that, and the fact that I live about an hour from the former Long Branch factory, a No.4 Mk1 Long Branch (early production/5 groove/grooved handguard) strikes me as an interesting/appropriate choice. Handsome gun too!

I've also had the good fortune of having a kind CGNr forward me some info on date ranges/what to look for...but I'll be d***ed if I can find that correspondence. Was probably a while back.... Guess the purpose of this email is to look for ideas on what to look for/avoid, what years are the 5-groove, etc. Honestly, after it as a shooter (=not collector) but a complete/matching gun in good condition (from new, or refinished) would probably top the list. Whether or not it was issued is of no concern, but a gun that saw active service won't be in ^ that condition.

I know values are all over the place, but confusing the issue is that I've seen early No.4s from LB that don't have the grooved handguard. Not sure if they were produced that way or it's a mix-n-match situation. Any/all help is appreciated. Not a WTB ad, all I'm after is information at this point, and greatly appreciate any replies to this thread.

Plan would be to load the ammo myself.

thanks!
 
No.4 Mk1 Long Branch are few and far between.

Now the No.4 Mk1* Long Branch is probably what you are after.

5 groove from the 1950s production are more readily available.
 
AFAIK there are no records to show what barrel went on what rifle as far as serial numbers/years but 2 grooves would have been mainly on LB and Savage around 1941 and later. They still used 5 groove during that period as well - Savage tried a 4 and 6 groove for a short time around 1941 and LB also produced a 6 groove RH twist around 1950. To me 5 or 2 groove would not matter as long as the bore itself was good.

As far as wood goes, they used what they had so a grooved top handguard does not necessarily denote LB. There are LB within the same year of manufacture with and without the grooved top handguard.

For a shooter I would be looking at (in order)

Is the bore in good shape
Is it headspaced correctly
Is it stocked up correctly
Does the magazine feed correctly

then
wood condition
matching numbers etc
 
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So, 22LRGUY, how many years have you been procrastinating this purchase?????

If you're actually a "22LR" lover, I would suggest you pick up one of the "22lr" variants.

Quit worrying about all of the things that may or may not be wrong with it.

If you're looking for a pristine example be prepared to pay accordingly. Don't rely on pics. If you can't see it with your own eyeballs and hold it in your hands, don't buy it.

Advertise on several sites what you're looking for and where you will be willing to meet. Get it done, before you're to old to shoot anymore, if you actually intend to shoot it.
 
Paul_T said:
AFAIK there are no records to show what barrel went on what rifle as far as serial numbers/years but 2 grooves would have been mainly on LB and Savage around 1941 and later. They still used 5 groove during that period as well - Savage tried a 4 and 6 groove for a short time around 1941 and LB also produced a 6 groove RH twist around 1950. To me 5 or 2 groove would not matter as long as the bore itself was good.

As far as wood goes, they used what they had so a grooved top handguard does not necessarily denote LB. There are LB within the same year of manufacture with and without the grooved top handguard.

For a shooter I would be looking at (in order)

Is the bore in good shape
Is it headspaced correctly
Is it stocked up correctly
Does the magazine feed correctly

then
wood condition
matching numbers etc
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul-much appreciated.
 
bearhunter said:
So, 22LRGUY, how many years have you been procrastinating this purchase?????

If you're actually a "22LR" lover, I would suggest you pick up one of the "22lr" variants.

Quit worrying about all of the things that may or may not be wrong with it.

If you're looking for a pristine example be prepared to pay accordingly. Don't rely on pics. If you can't see it with your own eyeballs and hold it in your hands, don't buy it.

Advertise on several sites what you're looking for and where you will be willing to meet. Get it done, before you're to old to shoot anymore, if you actually intend to shoot it.
Click to expand...

Wow, tough ^ crowd. lol Probably 3 years, and I was considering an WW1-era gun up until about a year ago when I handled a LB No.4 Mk1* in (what looked like) new condition. Had the grooved handguard too, everything matching, don't know the year but I could find out. I've actually come close to buying a couple in that time btw, but Enfields/surplus guns are something I feel like I know LESS about the more I read about them. Feel like I'm at risk of missing an important detail and finding out after I've overpaid for one with some hidden issue.

Rimfire/varmint guns/shotguns=my comfort zones :)
 
.22LRGUY said:
Wow, tough ^ crowd. lol Probably 3 years, and I was considering an WW1-era gun up until about a year ago when I handled a LB No.4 Mk1* in (what looked like) new condition. Had the grooved handguard too, everything matching, don't know the year but I could find out. I've actually come close to buying a couple in that time btw, but Enfields/surplus guns are something I feel like I know LESS about the more I read about them. Feel like I'm at risk of missing an important detail and finding out after I've overpaid for one with some hidden issue.

Rimfire/varmint guns/shotguns=my comfort zones :)
Click to expand...

I run across folks like you all of the time in my meanderings and you aren't alone by any means.

When you say you don't know the year of the Longbranch you were ogling, unless the rifle has been through a legitimate Factory Thorough Repair, the year the receiver was manufactured will always be stamped on the left flat of the receiver, right over the magazine. Depending on which nation received them, there will be other stamps to indicate their history.

This is just IMHO of course but if you do finally decide to pull some of that moldy cash out of your pocket and lay it down on a rifle you better know what you intend to do with that rifle.

For instance, will it be a pretty safe queen or are you going to shoot it? If it's the safe queen route than get an ad on the EE for a pristine rifle, which will have been test fired at the factory. There usually is no sign of this as the ammo used at the time was corrosive and the resulting fouling couldn't be left in the bores. Sometimes, there will be a slight smudge of brass on the follower in the mag.

A used rifle, may appear to be new or almost new but have gone through an FTR to be refurbed to as new condition. Even these are getting scarce.

If you're planning on shooting this rifle on a fairly regular basis, look for a decent looking shooter grade with an EXCELLENT BORE or you will be disappointed.

No4 rifles are like other rifles out there, but finicky at best. The very odd one will shoot into an inch or so with ammunition tailored to it. Most shoot into 2-4 inches at 100yds.

Worn throats and loose ways (bedding) can/do cause some issues and no matter how good a rifle looks, if the person that took it apart to clean out the factory storage grease didn't know how to drop the fore end properly, they screwed up the ways. Maybe not bad enough to be overly noticeable at first buttttt??????

That's life. Take your chances and if it doesn't work out, then work with the rifle to make it shoot acceptably.

These rifles were mass produced on manually operated equipment. They fitted on jigs for the most part and were actually very well made.

However, wartime production requirements made for pretty low standards in some areas of the manufacture.

If you really want a pristine Longbranch, good luck. A decent FTR would suit your stated requirements, depending on which nation FTRed the rifle.

Some people snub their noses at the ''dreaded Ishy screw" installed by the Indian facilities, often on new rifles. Not really a bad thing as it held the fore ends together under all conditions and made repairs easier and kept the replacement of stocks to a minimum.

Quit procrastinating, you won't learn until you get your feet wet.

Just think of all the fun you've missed while you wring your hands in woe.
 
^I was at a buddy's farm, didn't even know he had an Enfield of any kind. We were talking shotguns/about to shoot clays when the topic came up. I hadn't considered a No.4 Mk1*, nor had I even held an Enfield at that point. Liked everything about it! Tried to rid myself of some moldy cash on the spot, but he had no interest in selling. I was prepared to pay 2X what he said he bought it for too. :)

BTW-no moldy cash on this end=nobody told me motorcycles were an expensive hobby to get into in your 50s! lol
 
.22LRGUY said:
^I was at a buddy's farm, didn't even know he had an Enfield of any kind. We were talking shotguns/about to shoot clays when the topic came up. I hadn't considered a No.4 Mk1*, nor had I even held an Enfield at that point. Liked everything about it! Tried to rid myself of some moldy cash on the spot, but he had no interest in selling. I was prepared to pay 2X what he said he bought it for too. :)

BTW-no moldy cash on this end=nobody told me motorcycles were an expensive hobby to get into in your 50s! lol
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I'm just giving you a bit of a hard time to motivate you, not really dissing you.

Procrastination is the way some folks operate. In this game, you snooze you lose.

You may have offered your bud twice what he paid for it but that doesn't mean you were willing to pay him for what its real value is on the present market.

I see this all the time as well on the gun show circuit. Try dealing with Luke (Kamlooky)

I suggest you buy your first rifle and get some real knowledge. If you don't like it, sell it and move on.

I see so many folks that procrastinate on everything. I'm married to a procrastinator and I see her missing out on all sorts of things she would really enjoy.

She also tends to buy cheap junk first, then get upset because it doesn't fulfill her perceptions. Buy decent quality first and never look back.

I got into motorcycles in my 20s. Rode a Moto Guzzi, 850 El Dorado with full ferring/bags from BC to Peru and back on one trip. Did several others through the US and to Nfld/NWT/Alaska. Just over 65,000 miles on that bike before it was sold off, in my fifties and spending a lot of money keeping it running smoothly and reliably. No, not a Harley but it suited my needs and was a very comfortable ride when putting on 400-500 kliks per day.

Enjoy the motorcycle. I'll bet you haven't regretted purchasing it???? Mind you, frugal habits sometimes lead to ''buyer remorse'' even when the purchase fulfills all your needs at the time.
 
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.22LRGUY said:
^I was at a buddy's farm, didn't even know he had an Enfield of any kind. We were talking shotguns/about to shoot clays when the topic came up. I hadn't considered a No.4 Mk1*, nor had I even held an Enfield at that point. Liked everything about it! Tried to rid myself of some moldy cash on the spot, but he had no interest in selling. I was prepared to pay 2X what he said he bought it for too. :)

BTW-no moldy cash on this end=nobody told me motorcycles were an expensive hobby to get into in your 50s! lol
Click to expand...

People love their Enfields. I have a buddy at my club I have been trying to slowly nag incessantly to sell me his Enfield. It is in beautiful shape and I have handled it at his house previously and hope to shoot it. He ain't selling it and said "this will be buried with me". Even offering triple what he paid for it has not yielded a crack in the slab. I'll keep working on him though...

I do agree with bearhunter...with some of these older guns, you have to get to a point of peace in accepting enough of what you are looking for. Trying to find something that checks off all boxes is like my buddy who has said for decades that he is still looking for the right woman...whether in his 20s, 30s, 40s and now 50s, he has had a long mental list of non-negotiable qualities he is looking for in a woman. He is still single and unattached. Is anyone surprised? I told him at this rate, it's gonna be slim pickin's in the nursing home. Sometimes you have to work with what you have and accept a "good enough" proposition, particularly with older firearms.
 
As my mom used to say, "s**t or get off the pot" :)

I get it guys, eventually you have to jump in and have a frame of reference/have a starting point at least. I think the higher the initial outlay/the more reluctant I am to take chances. I am frugal, but prepared to pay for things I want at the same time. Seems every time the Enfield urge pops-up, they've increased in (asking) prices by 25%. Anyhow, I only asked my buddy if he'd ever consider selling...he knew why, and knew it would be a well over what he told me he paid for it if I was buying from him. We both have a sense of what they're worth today.

Nope, bought the motorcyle brand new which surprised a few people who know me in this hobby. lol The introduction of this particular bike was what inspired me to get my license in the first place and no regrets so far. Have over 900kms on it, and I haven't owned it that long. :) Think the "22LR" of the Honda motorcycle realm and you'd probably be close. lol

Appreciate all the input, even from bearhunter
 
Buying guns of any sort can be hit and or miss. Take bearhuner’s advice. Apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have sifted through around 300 milsurp rifles in my time and still own around 150 or so. Maybe thirty years ago a friend gave me a No. 4 missing a bolt. I dug it out a couple of years ago and discovered it was a Pakistan Ordnance Factory. A gunsmith friend gave me a bolt and I installed a no gunsmith mount and a classic old Weaver. It shoots like a dream. Moral of that story - do your research. I mistook the “POF” to be “ROF”. I take the old rifle out once in a while to honour my friend who has passed on.
 
There is a very nice replica No4 (T) listed on ####### for a VERY GOOD price. Those kinds of things don't come around all that often.

There are a lot of varying quality No4 rifles posted for a wide range of prices. How one determines what an individual rifle is worth is beyond me but it doesn't take an expert to decide that some prices are pretty reasonable and some prices are downright ridiculous.

It should be possible to find a nice No4 for around $800 - $1000. I suspect the rifles priced much higher than that just don't sell. But then again there is a fool born every minute so who knows?
 
kjohn said:
Buying guns of any sort can be hit and or miss. Take bearhuner’s advice. Apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have sifted through around 300 milsurp rifles in my time and still own around 150 or so. Maybe thirty years ago a friend gave me a No. 4 missing a bolt. I dug it out a couple of years ago and discovered it was a Pakistan Ordnance Factory. A gunsmith friend gave me a bolt and I installed a no gunsmith mount and a classic old Weaver. It shoots like a dream. Moral of that story - do your research. I mistook the “POF” to be “ROF”. I take the old rifle out once in a while to honour my friend who has passed on.
Click to expand...

When those POF No4 MkII rifles first came onto the market a lot of people scoffed at them. I bought a 20 pack because the best price I could get them for was at 20, then at 100, etc.

When I make such purchases, of course I cherry pick for the best specimen.

In this case, all of the rifles were bordering on excellent and you had to look pretty closely to make sure they weren't new.

So, the next thing to help me choose which of the rifles I would keep was to disassemble them, clean them and then shoot them with proven surplus Greek ammo I had on hand at the time.

All of the rifles shot very well, usually under 3 inches but two of them consistently produced sub 2moa groups. I kept both of them for about ten years.

I checked the bore diameters of all the rifles and the largest bore I could find was .311, the smallest was .309 and the rest were within a half thou of .310

I kept the rifle with the .309 bore and the best shooter with a .310 bore.

I know this is off topic Kjohn, but you may want to check the bore of that very fine POF No4 MkII, built on surplus Maltby equipment. The early ones were built under British supervision.

The stocks on those rifles are made from very straigh, dark and dense Circassian Walnut. Likely some of the best of the last Lee Enfields made.

If a very close to excellent POF and a similar Longbranch were presented for sale at the same time and I was looking to buy, I would choose the POF.
 
bearhunter said:
I'm just giving you a bit of a hard time to motivate you, not really dissing you.

Procrastination is the way some folks operate. In this game, you snooze you lose.

You may have offered your bud twice what he paid for it but that doesn't mean you were willing to pay him for what its real value is on the present market.

I see this all the time as well on the gun show circuit. Try dealing with Luke (Kamlooky)

I suggest you buy your first rifle and get some real knowledge. If you don't like it, sell it and move on.

I see so many folks that procrastinate on everything. I'm married to a procrastinator and I see her missing out on all sorts of things she would really enjoy.

She also tends to buy cheap junk first, then get upset because it doesn't fulfill her perceptions. Buy decent quality first and never look back.

I got into motorcycles in my 20s. Rode a Moto Guzzi, 850 El Dorado with full ferring/bags from BC to Peru and back on one trip. Did several others through the US and to Nfld/NWT/Alaska. Just over 65,000 miles on that bike before it was sold off, in my fifties and spending a lot of money keeping it running smoothly and reliably. No, not a Harley but it suited my needs and was a very comfortable ride when putting on 400-500 kliks per day.

Enjoy the motorcycle. I'll bet you haven't regretted purchasing it???? Mind you, frugal habits sometimes lead to ''buyer remorse'' even when the purchase fulfills all your needs at the time.
Click to expand...

Good thing you can't read my mind.
 
kamlooky said:
Good thing you can't read my mind.
Click to expand...

Mind???? Now you're trying to say you have a mind???

Have a good day buddy. It's already 28C in the shade here so Merrit will be a bit cooler but later in the day it's going to be time to sit back with a few coolers and watch the world go by.
 
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