Is this the proper use of paper patched bullets? 32 WSL reloader wants to know!

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I have a Winchester 1905 chambered in 32 Winchester Self-Loading (32 WSL) and I've been making cases from 32-20 brass.

I made my first 25 rounds of 32 WSL with a home-made expander that irons out the shoulder in the 32-20 brass. The expander leaves the case mouth a very nice fit for Hornady Interlock 170 gr FP .321" (Hornady #3210) bullets. The bullets seat nice and tight in the cases and they work great in the rifle.

I now have a problem reloading the fired brass. I have a CH4D 32 WSL die set and it is designed for use with .322" bullets. The die is probably intended for use with cast bullets rather than jacketed. After resizing the fired brass in the die the .321" Hornady bullet just drops right inside the case.

I've tried wrapping the .321" bullets with two wraps of onionskin paper (from a Hilroy Onionskin Pad, Hilroy #21160, from Staples) and this seems to work. I apply the paper wet and it dries and shrinks to the bullet. The paper tightens down and forms a groove at the bullet's cannelure.

The paper patched bullet seats in the mouth and generally stays put but can still move in and out with finger pressure. I can push the bullets in by hand and do not really need the bullet seating die to get them into the cases. A light crimp into the cannelure locks the bullet in place -- it can then rotate but cannot be pulled out by hand.

I've not loaded any of these with primers or powder yet. I am just making dummy rounds at this point to practice the wrapping and seating techniques.

Is paper patching the way to go to get these bullets to seat in the fired cases?

Does this sound like how paper patching typically works? Or is the bullet still too loose in the case?

I have a couple of boxes of the Hornady bullets and would like to keep using them. I plan to switch to cast bullets once I use these up. I've cast some bullets from the Lee C324-175-1R mold and those look like they will work fine in the previously fired and resized cases.
 
Subbed for knowledgeable replies, but will add my own ignorance-based 2cents

The reading I have done on PP (no practical experience whatsoever) seem to suggest the purpose is to better fit a bore, not the brass. It seems in your case it would better fit both. Maybe try a 3rd wrap, or a thicker paper? (printer paper is about .003, Zig Zag rolling papers are aprox .001...the looks I would get with a pack of those in my toolbox was priceless, but they were awesome for zeroing my machine in the day)

You may also consider a smaller expander in your die, or crimping if it's a matter of brass fitting alone.
 
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I agree with what has been posted. I have no experience with the 32 WSL but my Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions gives a bullet diameter of .320 so if your .321 bullets aren't fitting your resized brass, then I think your brass is being over expanded. What is the diameter of the expander ball in your sizing die? If it is larger than .319 I would look at polishing it down to a reasonable size or maybe talk to the manufacturer about getting a smaller ball.
 
Interesting thing about the CH4D dies is that there is no expander in the sizing die. The 32 WSL die set is what they call a "Type 3" die set and this is how they describe it in their instructions:

Type 3: Three die set. Used for straight or nearly straight rifle cartridges, pistol cartridges, and
any cartridge which normally uses cast bullets. There is a decapping assembly in the sizer and an
"M" type expander in the expander body.
Click to expand...

Here's a pic of the sizing die and decapper:

21kkprt.png


The diameter of the part just above the decapping pin is .249, so it does not come into play at all during resizing.

And here is their expander:

2q2ic1u.png


Out of the sizing die the case mouth measures .3230. The CH4D expander measures .3200, so it does not even touch the fired and resized cases.

I just measured 10 of the Hornady bullets and found them to actually be .3200 to .3205. Only one of them was actually .321.

Friggaly buggins!

Just for chuckles, here is the homemade expander I made to iron out the shoulder in 32-20 brass:

2helz0k.png


Cases sized with this thing grip the Hornady bullets nicely. The business end measures .3185. To use the thing, I lightly lube the shaft (blush), start the 32-20 case by hand, put the assembly case-down on a block of wood, and tap the sizer in with a mallet. I then pull the case off the sizer on the press.

I am thinking that there are a few options here:

  • A new sizing die, perhaps homemade, just for use with the fired brass and this bullet. I think the CH4D die will work with cast bullets but it just does not size the brass down far enough for these just-under .321 Hornady bullets.

  • A swage to squash the bullets a bit to expand their diameter.

  • Paper patches.

I should also really slug the bore on the rifle to see what the dimensions are there. I'm a little reluctant to do that after I tried slugging the bore on an AG42B and got the slug and the dowels stuck in the bore -- but that's another story! :)
 
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It would be nice to be able to swage that case mouth down a couple thou but larger bullets would seem like the easiest solution, as long as they still chamber and function OK.
 
I make 32-40 and 32 Special cast bullets that can be sized .322 or .323. Don't know if either would be suitable for 32WSL.
 
camster said:
Curious what the diameter of the button retaining your decap pin is? Can you adjust expander to less depth, or is it a sloppy fit regardless? Going to cycle through a self-loader so a bit of a crimp won't hurt.
Click to expand...

The diameter of the part just above the decapping pin is .249, so it does not come into play at all during resizing.

I actually decap on a dedicated Lee Reloader press with the Lee Universal Decapping Die. I remove the decapping assembly from the CH4D die when I use it. I usually decap all my fired stuff in a separate session from the rest of the reloading process.
 
fingers284 said:
Read the threads in the "making Bullets" forum on this site on Powder Coating, an easy fix for your dilemma.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the note. Just checked that out and am ordering some TGIC-free powder coating. I actually have another project in mind for powder coating, so this is a happy coincidence! I'll try coating some bullets and see what their dimensions are after coating.

Might be interesting to compare three variants out of the rifle: the resized from 32-20 brass with the homemade sizer, the paper patched and crimped, and the powder coated.
 
Powder coating thickness can be regulated to whatever you desire (within reason) by different methods of coating and multiple coats. I have successfully added thickness fro 1.5 thou up to 8 thou ( 200 gr. .452 pistol up to .460 for a "loose" 45-70). that gun went from a 2.5" "adequate" shooter to 1 MOA...astounded me actually.
 
Hello All --

Just an update on this in case anyone is subbed.

fingers284 mentioned powder coating and I looked into it a bit. The bullets that come of out that can look really neat and a big part of reloading for me is how the things look, so I'll give that a try.

I ordered some RAL 7004 Polyester TGIC Free Signal Grey powder from Emeral Coatings and have been playing with it.

I've not yet cooked any of it up. I am still trying to get it to stick to the bullets. I am trying dry tumbling both with and without plastic Airsoft balls.

The powder seems to stick just fine to cast bullets, tumbling either with or without the Airsoft balls.

The powder does not want to stick at all to the Hornady .321" jacketed bullets, tumbling either with or without the Airsoft balls. I think I will have to look at actual electrostatic spraying to get the powder to stick to the jacketed bullets.

I tried putting some of the powder into methyl hydrate and into varsol so see if I could make a suspension of powder that would stick to the bullets after the fluids evaporate off. That did not work at all -- both methyl hydrate and varsol seemed to act like a solvent for the plastic powder and caused it to melt and re-harden into pebble-sized chunks.

I'm not giving up on powder coating, but I don't think I am going to throw any more money at at.

Looking at entry-level hydrostatic guns on Amazon and at Eastwood, I'm not too impressed by what I am seeing. There seem to be a lot of negative reviews on these things about the fragility of the spray guns. I have a Badger 260 abrasive airbrush thing -- http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Badger_260.asp -- from a previous hobby that can probably handle the powder, so I may look into cobbling together some sort of power supply to turn that into an electrostatic gun.

Rather than throw money at a cheap eletrostatic gun, I've decided to throw money at cheap lathe tooling! I have a hobby-quality boring head on the way and I am going to try making my own dies for this 32 WSL project. I need a die that will size the previously-fired brass down just a skoonch to get it to grip the .321 Hornady bullets.

The "blanks" for my dies are these things -- http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/7-8-in-adjustable-lift-arm-pin/A-p8216236e -- which give you a substantial chunk of metal already threaded for 7/8" × 14 TPI, which is the common resizing die thread.

I think the boring head, boring bars, and hole gauges I have on the way are a better investment than the cheap hydrostatic gun. The equipment should let me have a go at making dies, bullet sizers, and bullet moulds. And after the government takes our guns away, I can make stationary steam engine models and such.

So remind me... what was the problem with paper patches? Good point. I'm still going to try them but I think I prefer resizing the brass in a homemade die as the long-term solution. The Winchester 1905 is a semiauto and I am not sure I want to shoot paper through the thing -- I'd always be worried that some paper got left behind in the bore and it would be a pain to check the bore after every shot. I'll still try the paper patches and see if any debris gets left behind or not -- I may be worrying about nothing.

Just some notes in case anyone is interested.
 
I bit the bullet and bought the electrostatic gun from Eastwood and so far have used it on a few other things but never on bullets... it has worked very well for me on what I used it on.

That lift pin will be very hard stuff...usually hobby machines have a hard time overcoming that and buck a lot until something breaks (ask me how I know this). Most 14 tpi ready rod I can find is hard (gr 8 ) as well however some tool shops have machineable 14 tpi listed in their product list's but I have yet to find anybody that carries it. Any of the dies I have made on my hobby machine,I had to cut 1 " bar down to 7/8 and cut threads on it myself.
 
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