Ishapore Rebuilds...

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Ive noticed a couple vendors have some Long Branch Enfield No. 4 MK1* for sale (all WWII era) and all of them say Ishapore Rebuild.

Is this commonplace to have war era Enfield reworked at Ishapore?
Does it effect the value or desirability of the rifle?

Thanks

E
 
These were wartime dated rifles were sold to the Indians after WWII. When India got its Independence and split into East and West Pakistan, they needed more and more rifles. At some point the whole Fazackerly factory was moved to the Indian subcontinent.

The British actually designed the so-called Ishapor Screw to strengthen the foreend where it was noted to be weaker. The Indians happened to be the first to put the fix into common practise.

The price of anything in a free market is whatever a willing buyer will pay. Many collectors do not like guns that have been reworked or modified after service use. To my eye it is a statement that the clock has been reset to zero, and ready to shoot safely again. The other thing holding down prices, may be (... ahem ...) latent racism and prejudices against the originating country. Some countries do not have the same intrinsic value as others. For example, USGI Garands sell for higher prices than Italian postwar contract rifles. German-made Mausers hold their value and more desireablity than places where they were built under licence.
 
I am glad you came out and said that. Honestly, refurbed rifles are excellent in my eyes as well. They still have thier history, plus history from the refurb and are also "made safe" as well. Ishapore WAS under British eyes and governorship, and the upper echelons of the factory, AFAIK, were all British citizens. They went through the same rigorous testing and such that any other place did, however, the quality of the individual workmanship probably lagged behind. Then again, look at Australia. A post-penal colony country that was kept with a 30-40 year old design in WWII, the No.I Mk.III and yet still made an excellent firearm. Just my 2 cents.
 
Well, of course the standards of fit, finish and general workmanship were not as high as in the Mother Country. Everybody KNOWS that mere Colonials can't do anything right: just look at those awful Lithgow SMLEs and those silly Canadian Rosses!

If it were MY butt on the line, I certainly would not feel underequipped with an Indian or Pakistani rifle in my hands. Fit and finish ain't everything, milord!

On the other hand, I'd feel even safer with a good Ross!
 
smellie said:
Well, of course the standards of fit, finish and general workmanship were not as high as in the Mother Country. Everybody KNOWS that mere Colonials can't do anything right: just look at those awful Lithgow SMLEs and those silly Canadian Rosses!

If it were MY butt on the line, I certainly would not feel underequipped with an Indian or Pakistani rifle in my hands. Fit and finish ain't everything, milord!

On the other hand, I'd feel even safer with a good Ross!
Click to expand...

Um....:redface:....the Ross in competition shooting :) , or the Ross in combat? :eek:
 
Either one, my friend. I knew two guys who used them at Second Ypres, St. Julien sector (the gas attack) and they shot their Rosses until they were too hot to hold, grabbed another Ross and shot it until it was too hot to hold, went back to their original rifles.

In competition, have used a 1910 Ross at the 2-man Iron Sight at CFB Shilo. This is a miserable, mean, cruel shoot, 2-man teams, about 40 reactive targets at distances estimated (very roughly) to be 80 yds to 400 yds (actually, there was a 21-inch plate at 500 metres). Timed, of course: hits count first, time second. Utterly cruel on the humans, rough on the rifles. Rosses came through just fine after 8 minutes and 30 seconds of rapid-fire. If I remember rightly, I think Stencollector was there that day. We had a couple of very warm rifles at the conclusion, but we did come in 10th place.... and we were the only team with 2 bolt rifles.

Fun!

That's what Rosses and SMLEs both are best at! Can't beat 'em!
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
These were wartime dated rifles were sold to the Indians after WWII. When India got its Independence and split into East and West Pakistan, they needed more and more rifles. At some point the whole Fazackerly factory was moved to the Indian subcontinent.

The British actually designed the so-called Ishapor Screw to strengthen the foreend where it was noted to be weaker. The Indians happened to be the first to put the fix into common practise.

The price of anything in a free market is whatever a willing buyer will pay. Many collectors do not like guns that have been reworked or modified after service use. To my eye it is a statement that the clock has been reset to zero, and ready to shoot safely again. The other thing holding down prices, may be (... ahem ...) latent racism and prejudices against the originating country. Some countries do not have the same intrinsic value as others. For example, USGI Garands sell for higher prices than Italian postwar contract rifles. German-made Mausers hold their value and more desireablity than places where they were built under licence.
Click to expand...


A good summary.

The ROF Fazackerly machinery was sold and moved to Pakistan and equipped Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF) which built new No.4Mk2 rifles. Both POF and India's Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) refurbished various marks of No.1 and No.4 rifles that those countries had.

Although it is generally agreed that some factories tended to build their rifles with a slightly nicer finish than others, they were all made to the same basic specifications and at the age these rifle are now, who made them originally is much less important to their condition than how much an individual rifle has been used and how well it has been cared for since.
 
I have a No4 mk1* that was rebuilt by Ishapore in 1963. I suspect it was originally a LB. It has the Ishy screw and I love the reddish wood it was restocked with.
 
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