Israel Arms Ltd.
- Thread starter CZ Canuck
- Start date
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec
The pistol is stamped Israel Arms and I think is also stamped by the importer in Texas. The BATF look for "Made in China" on the firearm. Where the components came from is a non-issue in my opinion.
Harley-Davidson has Chinese parts on it but is MADE IN USA nonetheless, I should know cause I have a '94 FLSTN.
Harley-Davidson has Chinese parts on it but is MADE IN USA nonetheless, I should know cause I have a '94 FLSTN.
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec
NAA said:Very interesting....
Now this is confusing. The photo above was taken off the NORINCO site (an NP-27).
You can clearly see just under the top part of the grip, the U.S. importers stamp "Houston Tx." This would lead to believe that the US importers stamp is being done right at the Norinco plant in China.
This would lead me to believe that it is brand labeled for Israel Arms by Norinco. Which makes it a Kosher version of the Chinese Norc. Now all it would take would be for some whiz-kid in the U.S. State department to draw the same conclusion and they would then add "Israel Arms" to the banned import list.
(And the owner of JO Arms in Houston would be going to "Club Fed" for a long vacation)I want my .45 to be good for CCW in the States. Its a nice pistol for the price, it has an Armco prep and all, but if it makes the black list of Uncle Sam, then I would be one pissed off camper!
I think this may be the importers (JO Arms of Houston Tx.) way of bringing illegal Chinese Norcs into the country. I have a Norc NP-40 which I really like by the way, but it is prohibited from crossing over to the U.S.
I am taking Safeguardguys CCW course and would like to have a firearm that I can legally bring into the US. I am worried that the hoax will be discovered by the State Dept and Israel Arms owners will be stopped at the border as a Norinco in disguise.
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I dug out my paperwork on the first one I got, and the official registration says the "make" is IAL, Model is M5000.
Now I know damn well it has at least 90% Norino parts, I can tell by feel in the dark after tuning this many AND it sure looks like that Norinco NP27, even though that one is labeled a Model M6000....
Do I care? Nope. It would be nice if they were able to be carried in(to) the US, but I agree with Griffoneur - I wouldn't chance it...
Are they decent guns? Absolutely!! I do agree with NAA, I'm a black gun kinda guy I suppose, and I like the all black ones for looks. The corrosion protection is what us IPSC types look for and Hard Chrome has that
Gunnar
Now I know damn well it has at least 90% Norino parts, I can tell by feel in the dark after tuning this many
AND it sure looks like that Norinco NP27, even though that one is labeled a Model M6000....Do I care? Nope. It would be nice if they were able to be carried in(to) the US, but I agree with Griffoneur - I wouldn't chance it...
Are they decent guns? Absolutely!! I do agree with NAA, I'm a black gun kinda guy I suppose, and I like the all black ones for looks. The corrosion protection is what us IPSC types look for and Hard Chrome has that
Gunnar
cwlam3 said:
Gunnar will probably be able to answer this better, but from the research I've done, I would suggest the actual shooting performance would be the same with the prep work he does done to both.
However, the Israel Arms .45 has some nice extra features. From his site:
So, it just depends on what you want. For me, it was a great package deal that included modifications that I wanted, for less price than doing the modifications to a Norc 1911A1-C directly.
Damm it Gunar, I buy a nice Commander off of you, and then you bring in a Cooler Commander, so I trade my Commander in for the new one, now you bring in a even more cooler Commander!! The guy is like a crack dealer I tell you!!!!!!!
Next you be waving a Dan Wesson Bobtail under my nose, have you no pity!!!!!
Next you be waving a Dan Wesson Bobtail under my nose, have you no pity!!!!!
I am considering one of these from Gunnar too, instead of a regular Norinco. Glad Gunnar is working his magic on them, as the quote below from the 1911 forum is not very encouraging.
I got one last month as a Xmas gift to myself. It is a Israeli made commander m5000 chrome frame and blue slide. It was never fired, like new condition. After I received it, I knew why it was never fire. The pistol had a very rough ramp, it will not feed with a full magazine. The slide jambed once the round hit the ramp. It does that until the last three rounds in the mag. I had to polish the ramp, tune the extractor, in order for it to feed normally. The fit and finish is bad. Machine mark inside and out. Barrel hood to breech face has gap on all three sides. Barrel lock up is good. bushing and barrel fit is decent, no wrench required. The trigger is sloppy, with plenty of play vertically and horizonally. Trigger pull feels like 6-7lbs. The frame to slide fit is pretty loose. I got a chance to fire about 150 rounds before I left the country for a business trip. Accuracy is poor, about 2 inch at 7 yards shooting from a sandbag. I only got 1 FTL and 0 rejection problem. Most of the time, the slide will not lock back after the last round no matter what brand of mag I used. I think I am going to use this gun as a project and replace everything inside. First on the list is a new sight, new trigger, and a trigger job, barrel and bushing will be next. Overall, for less than $400, I think I did OK.
I got one last month as a Xmas gift to myself. It is a Israeli made commander m5000 chrome frame and blue slide. It was never fired, like new condition. After I received it, I knew why it was never fire. The pistol had a very rough ramp, it will not feed with a full magazine. The slide jambed once the round hit the ramp. It does that until the last three rounds in the mag. I had to polish the ramp, tune the extractor, in order for it to feed normally. The fit and finish is bad. Machine mark inside and out. Barrel hood to breech face has gap on all three sides. Barrel lock up is good. bushing and barrel fit is decent, no wrench required. The trigger is sloppy, with plenty of play vertically and horizonally. Trigger pull feels like 6-7lbs. The frame to slide fit is pretty loose. I got a chance to fire about 150 rounds before I left the country for a business trip. Accuracy is poor, about 2 inch at 7 yards shooting from a sandbag. I only got 1 FTL and 0 rejection problem. Most of the time, the slide will not lock back after the last round no matter what brand of mag I used. I think I am going to use this gun as a project and replace everything inside. First on the list is a new sight, new trigger, and a trigger job, barrel and bushing will be next. Overall, for less than $400, I think I did OK.
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
marlin60 said:
I've read that as well (poor/average reviews), but if Gunnar makes them work, I would trust it to be quite a bit better than an average 1911.
