Israeli K98 bolt will not close after 3 rounds

[J996]

Interesting to read the various views. I am unconvinced that these Mausers were anything but quickly cobbled together odds and ends that were bought cheap/scrounged from various sources post war. I would be very surprised if at the time they were assembled that the Israeli's even had much industrial capacity to produce a quality barrel either. Who knows for sure? Would sure be interested in reading some accurate Israeli "period" information about their production. My version was not all that accurate and was a real mix master of parts. I am certainly impressed with the amount people ask for them when being sold though.

In 1948 they did scrounge, beg, borrow and steal all the weapons they could. Surplus 8mm mausers were plentiful after WW2 and a few years later they standardized the 98k for the new IDF.
By the early 1950's you had better believe they could build a weapon. The UZI went into full production in 56. The prototype was built 1950 and it was issued to SF in 54.
In 1956 Israel adopted the FN-FAL and produced it under licence. The refurbishing process of the 98K's for the reserves which would be the "Israeli Mauser" started in 1956. The barrels are as quality as anything, I have seen many. Most have dates ranging 56 to 58. They were rebuilt, new barrels in 7.62 installed, most were restocked in beech stocks and either blued or later parkerized.
I don't know if you have ever had an Izzy FAL in your hands, but they are very nice.

 

[Potashminer]

I am kind of curious as to what are people thinking is a "Israeli" Mauser 98. Immediately after WWII, those Israeli folk smuggled, bought and borrowed any firearms and ammunition that they could get their hands on. Many European factories that had been producing for the Nazi's (such as what we now refer to as Brno, CZ, etc.) had tons of parts and pieces on hand. I have a "Israeli" that is built on a DOT 45 action. Guess what - the DOT factory never made any K98's in 1945 - that is what was stamped on them when they were assembled after the War was over, and the parts were being used up. It is not as if Israel was ever manufacturing K98's! They were buying whatever they could get. Then, in the late 1950's, they started pulling the barrels, and screwing on barrels chambered for 7.62 NATO, still in Mauser 98 configuration, although these were soon obsolete and surpluses. I bought my first one in late 1970's by mail-order from S.I.R. out of Winnipeg - memory a bit foggy, but I am thinking much less than C$100.

 

[jbmauser]

Interesting to read the various views. I am unconvinced that these Mausers were anything but quickly cobbled together odds and ends that were bought cheap/scrounged from various sources post war. I would be very surprised if at the time they were assembled that the Israeli's even had much industrial capacity to produce a quality barrel either. Who knows for sure? Would sure be interested in reading some accurate Israeli "period" information about their production. My version was not all that accurate and was a real mix master of parts. I am certainly impressed with the amount people ask for them when being sold though.

Yes they are made up of a bunch of mixed and matched parts but the individual parts are all from quality manufacturers. Nothing wrong with German, Czech, or FN Mauser parts. These are all well made parts with high quality metals and you are wrong about the Israeli's not being able to make a quality barrel. They had the equipment and know how to do it by the time they were converting these K98k's to 7.62. They were also making their own buttplates, stocks, bands, followers, rear sight sleeves, etc. when they were rebuilding these so they just didn't cobble together rifles from junk piles. There was definitely a fair bit of care taken when they were assembled to make sure they functioned reasonably well. Of course with the variety of makers parts used, there is the possibility for something to not work quite right due to tolerance stacking or slightly different dimensions but I don't think that's very common. You also have to consider that many of them have had a tough life and have a lot of parts swapped out post refurb. Mismatched bolts, etc. are pretty common on these.

As far as prices go, I don't see any selling for an unreasonable amount given the history and quality of them. Some of them can be very nice condition wise and are excellent shooters.

 

[Potashminer]

So, to the OP, if you are loading up a mag of 5 rounds, then chambering and firing the first, then the second, and then having trouble with the third round, I am guessing you have an unusual condition that many of us could help with if you could provide the details. You loaded 5 into the mag, right? You cycled the bolt and properly fired two of them, right? Then, when chambering the third round, you could not push the bolt far enough forward to turn the bolt handle down? right? Please confirm this for us and we might be able to figure out what is going wrong...

 

[Thresher]

The BRNO factory stamped that on them to hide the fact they were supplying arms to the new Israeli state. They were built as well as anything else that came out of that factory.

 

[JasonGTA]

So, to the OP, if you are loading up a mag of 5 rounds, then chambering and firing the first, then the second, and then having trouble with the third round, I am guessing you have an unusual condition that many of us could help with if you could provide the details. You loaded 5 into the mag, right? You cycled the bolt and properly fired two of them, right? Then, when chambering the third round, you could not push the bolt far enough forward to turn the bolt handle down? right? Please confirm this for us and we might be able to figure out what is going wrong...

Yes all 5 rounds in magazine, close bolt for round one and it shoots, open and ejects fine, close bolt for round two and it shoots, opens and ejects fine, attempt to close bolt for round three, it can close to the point where the bolt handle starts to go down, but only goes down halfway and stops dead in its tracks.

 

[JasonGTA]

Are you trying to load each round one at time or are you placing all rounds in the internal magazine prior to closing the action?

All rounds in the magazine

 

[Ganderite]

Is the tang action screw coming up and hitting the bolt?

 

[AP]

I am thinking for some reason the third round (in a magazine with 5 rounds to start - which side would it be on?) is not being picked up behind the extractor against the bolt face -- instead it is being pushed in front of the extractor and the extractor doesnt want to slip over the rim when the bolt is being closed...

my guess anyway

 

[tokguy]

I am thinking for some reason the third round (in a magazine with 5 rounds to start - which side would it be on?) is not being picked up behind the extractor against the bolt face -- instead it is being pushed in front of the extractor and the extractor doesnt want to slip over the rim when the bolt is being closed...

my guess anyway

If the round remains in the bbl after abandoning the attempt to close & the bolt is retracted of course. That would be the way to test the validity of this theory. Which has some merit, of course.
Tagged for interest.

 

[camster]

Magazine spring n' follower move freely, and evenly when empty? If 3rd round stays in chamber when bolt is pulled back, it suggests that round is not sneaking in behind the extractor.

Not too long ago there was a vz24 thread where extractor would rotate a touch, and not seat into it's well in the receiver ring. (Tuition-free learning for me provided by jbmauser here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1190369-vz-24-extractor-problem! ) I doubt it would be the 3rd round consistently in that case. Next time try looking at the extractor where it enters the ring, and seeing if it's aligned nicely (if it isn't press it down a smidge, and see if it closes then).