Israeli Kar 98k feeding reliability

Joel

Joel

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So after having experience with a few, gotta ask you guys...Is it pretty much just a thing that Israeli 98k rifles in 7.62x51 just don't feed reliably? Seems like they are really picky about how the cartridges are placed in the magwell and even then?

Not surprised if its the case since its a magazine designed for 7.92x57 with a block in it but still. The Winchester guys managed to make a totally reliable system with a long action mag with a block in it that feeds 308 perfectly. The idea of taking these things into battle is kinda sketch as hell haha.

Or have I just had really bad luck?

My 7.92x57mm 98ks have lived up to the rep.
 
I think you will find there is a small difference in body slope between an 8x57JS case and a 7.62 NATO case - the underside of the receiver was milled out to handle the case feeding from magazine to chamber - so the two cases are likely "close" - at least "close enough" for Israel to have converted a pile of them. There is no doubt some variation among the receivers - some might feed the 7.62 NATO really slick, but is NOT what the receivers were designed for. It can get even worse with 243 Win - I have two here - heavy barrels on Mauser 98 action - can not get either to feed "slickly" - even using a Isreali magazine box with that block for 7.62 NATO - the sharper angle shoulder (?) on 243 Win does not like to climb up that "ramp". If I were you, I would look at those feed rails on the underside of the receiver?
 
Also, I think those military things designed with exactly one shape of ammo bullet in mind - at least some of the BSA conversions here - an "hour glass" shape has been milled out of those mag wells - many moons ago, I was told that was to allow more rounded nose hunting ammo to tilt and climb up that loading ramp into the chamber - apparently not nearly the same issue with military hard point ammo.
 
At least on the push feed Win Model 70's here, I think the magazine box also has "shoulders" on top - they perform the function that the feed rails in the Mauser receiver do - I think that was Winchester's solution to get the various cartridges to feed - using various cartridge length - magazine blocks and one length of receiver, back in the day.
 
Bullet profile hasn't seemed to be an issue. Does the same with M80 ball, tipped match bullets etc.

Your description of the difference in case shape is my guess as well. Just seems to be if you grab a few at random and they bobble frequently enough, to likely be widespread. Too bad. But if this is the case I'm surprised it isn't talked about more.

Thanks for the insight into how Winchester makes it work
 
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I have seen two Israeli magazine conversions - one with a single spacer block, the other with blocks front and rear. I think the two spacer system is better. Suggests the Israelis knew there was a problem.
 
tiriaq said:
I have seen two Israeli magazine conversions - one with a single spacer block, the other with blocks front and rear. I think the two spacer system is better. Suggests the Israelis knew there was a problem.
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Interesting, thanks! Didn't know there was more than one version or execution of it.
 
I don't have issues with mine and I shot FMJ as well 150grn RNFP.

Even loading it from stripper clips.
 

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Oh no, not that kind! Lemme do you a favour and take it off your hands, OkayShooter ;) Just to be a bud
 
Joel said:
So after having experience with a few, gotta ask you guys...Is it pretty much just a thing that Israeli 98k rifles in 7.62x51 just don't feed reliably? Seems like they are really picky about how the cartridges are placed in the magwell and even then?

Not surprised if its the case since its a magazine designed for 7.92x57 with a block in it but still. The Winchester guys managed to make a totally reliable system with a long action mag with a block in it that feeds 308 perfectly. The idea of taking these things into battle is kinda sketch as hell haha.

Or have I just had really bad luck?

My 7.92x57mm 98ks have lived up to the rep.
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Your rifle likely has a weak follower spring, with just enough tension to hold the cartridges against the underside of the feed rails.

I've had this issue with several different models of Mauser rifles

Sometimes it only happens with the last cartridge on the follower. If this happens check to make sure it has the proper follower.

I've had 98 types with followers from 91-96 types in the mag well.

If the spring is weak, it won't hold the cartridge tip up high enough to clear the feed ramp, because when the bolt pushes the cartridge forward, the bullet point tips down slightly.

You don't give much info, other than you have a feed issue.

Is the bullet tip failing to run up the feed ramp or is it catching on the magwell edge?

If it's failing to run up the ramp, a bit of careful polishing should alleviate the issue. This can happen with all types of Mausers if they were made during stressful times.

Mauser actions are extremely forgiving when it comes to feeding reliably.

One other cause of feed failures is the "claw" extractor. Damaged? Not fitted properly? To sharp or damaged leading edge?

Something not allowing the cartridge rim to slip underneath and up onto the bolt face.
 
Because I wasnt concerned with diagnosing the issue. More so wondering if problems are inherent to the Israeli conversions and not other Mausers.

Several of them have had trouble compared to many more non converted 98ks which have not.

the problem is the bolt passing over the cartridges in the magazine without picking one up and feeding it. There may have been the jams/binding you mentioned too.
 
OK Shooter is right.

Might have helped to tell us the issue in the OP?

Why would there be any special issues with Israeli conversions of the K98 to shoot 7.62x51Nato ammunition when they used just about every type of 98 action as well as other types of Mauser, they could get their hands on?

Lots of nations, including Norway, Denmark, Peru, Brazil, Chile, etc used the same types of actions for their conversions to the cartridge without any alterations, other than the barrel.

The diameters of the bases are identical. The major difference would be at the shoulder, where the 8x57 is .020 smaller, but shouldn't have any effect on feeding, unless as sometimes happens the bullet tip of the 7.62x51 will catch on the lip of the feed ramp. This also can occur with round nose bullets in the 8x57 cartridge.
 
So 3 at random all have issues, while none of over twice that many in 8x57 have issues, and its not telling you enough?

Again, the nature of the problem itself was NOT the point and not what I am asking about. OP shouldn't have told you anything more, since his question was "are Israeli Mausers, as a whole, less reliable?" and not "whats going wrong with these particular rifles?"

Pretty sure if we ask a gunsmith "hey, if we just go ahead and throw a 308 barrel on a military Mauser, is there ANYTHING else that might matter in feeding besides the tip catching on the lip of the feed ramp?" I'm betting the answer will be yes lol.

BTW, that part about "the bullet tip of 7.62x51 will catch on the lip of the feed ramp" absolultely answers my question. No, they are not as reliable as their 8x57 counterparts. Thanks :)
 
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OkayShooter said:
I mean that could be a a follower spring issue.
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Three times out of three, assuming no other malfunctions, and none for any other Mauser i've had? Seems more to me like they were extremely picky about how the rounds were loaded to ensure that the bolt made contact with the rim of a casing, enough to feed.
 
Joel said:
So 3 at random all have issues, while none of over twice that many in 8x57 have issues, and its not telling you enough?

Again, the nature of the problem itself was NOT the point and not what I am asking about. OP shouldn't have told you anything more, since his question was "are Israeli Mausers, as a whole, less reliable?" and not "whats going wrong with these particular rifles?"

Pretty sure if we ask a gunsmith "hey, if we just go ahead and throw a 308 barrel on a military Mauser, is there ANYTHING else that might matter in feeding besides the tip catching on the lip of the feed ramp?" I'm betting the answer will be yes lol.
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Sorry I can only go based on the one I have. That doesn't have issues.
 
OkayShooter said:
Sorry I can only go based on the one I have. That doesn't have issues.
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It could just be I was very unlucky. Happens!


I think its more likely one inherently has more issues than the other, but I'm happy yours works fine! Even better if most or all the others do :)
 
I guess I'm a bit unlucky along with you as well. Ive had my Israeli Mauser for around 40 years now. I really like this rifle but at times it does misbehave a bit feed wise. And it doesn't seem to matter what kind of bullet the rounds are loaded with, spitzer or round nose. It does feed more reliably with a bit more enthusiasm when cycling the bolt in my experience, but then again so do a few other milsurps I shoot as well.
 
bearhunter said:
Story of your life?
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How can I feel my life unlucky when I have you here? Where else would would I find such high tier, little known and so not obvious advice like "the SKS isn't a target rifle" and "milsurp ammo isn't match ammo"? Without even having to solicit it haha.

I'm blessed :)
 
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