ISSC Mk22 12" Commando Barrel?
- Thread starter tknecht
- Start date
Cool, I'll take the word of the man who identified himself as "Chief Firearms Technologist, in the Specialized Firearms Support Services which is the technical authority in the subject area of assigning the applicable legal class to all firearms, devices and prohibited ammunition." who says otherwise.
Furthermore continue with the legal advice, because chopping barrels below 18" definitely does not make you a possessor of a prohibited firearms at allllll....
Lol that would be a funky looking gun! Now do we need to have the rifle inspected afterwards to verify its classification?
Only if you want to get crucified in court, absolutely in no way should you cut your barrel below 457mm.
I guess I worded it poorly. A manufactured barrel of 4.2 inchs or greater can be installed on the firearm.. But you can't take a hack saw to it.
And you can listen to who ever you want.. But as said I've confirmed it with the RCMP.. Pretty simple when you think of it ... You know overall length... Like total length of the firearm... Everything included.
And you can listen to who ever you want.. But as said I've confirmed it with the RCMP.. Pretty simple when you think of it ... You know overall length... Like total length of the firearm... Everything included.
You can have a gunsmith make you a shorty barrel from a blank, but chopping your existing bbl is a no no. That's why you can swap all sorts of short bbl's on 10/22's and 870's, but if you were to chop the barrel below 18", it becomes 100% prohib. Doesn't make the most sense, but unfortunately it's our laws.
That's fine, I'm just stressing to anyone who wants to listen, that I have a written document from the guy who is in charge of classifying firearms at the RCMP, that it does not count. I'm not saying it makes sense, I didn't like that answer, I'm just saying for the sake of fractions of an inch in OAL, that I would much rather be on the safe side, than to liquidate my assets trying to argue against them in court.
That being said, I'd definitely be interested in a 12" version.
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angryeyebrows
CGN frequent flyer
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Post it. I'm sure others would like to see your proof. What seems odd to me is that something as easily removable as a stock counts towards overall length but a muzzle device doesn't? I know when specifically dealing with barrel length any muzzle accessories do not count unless they are machined as part of the barrel. As far as I understand, the overall length of a firearm is just that, the length the firearm when it is fully assembled and ready to shoot, after collapsing or folding the stock, if applicable.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
Ya no kidding, post it. I've never heard about what you are talking about, and without posting your "proof" you sound a bit blow-hard-ish calling out other guys and acting like a demi-god. If you post it you won't come off as an arrogant.... you know.
On the note of the 12" issc i would like one if the reliability issues from the first batches are fully straightened out.
I just read the section. There is nothing in there about the 660mm not including butt pad and flash hider. The only area that is relevant is the barrel length section and reduce recoil is talking about muzzle brakes.
So you can have a rim fire rifle that is OAL greater then 660mm but must have a barrel greater than 457mm. The 457mm must not include any muzzle device.
The RCMP guy should be embarrassed to call himself a technical expert in anything. He certainly doesn't have the written law behind his assertion.
So you can have a rim fire rifle that is OAL greater then 660mm but must have a barrel greater than 457mm. The 457mm must not include any muzzle device.
The RCMP guy should be embarrassed to call himself a technical expert in anything. He certainly doesn't have the written law behind his assertion.
The only way I could make sense of it, is he said it is measured from butt to muzzle, if they don't consider the FH or muzzle brake to be an extension of the muzzle, then it would not be considered part of the overall length.
My specific question (to which this email was a reply) was whether butt pads/spacers and muzzle devices were considered to be part of the OAL as I was building a 9" 10/22 at the time. Like I said before, I didn't like the answer, but that's the one I got. The barrel length like you said, could be well under 457mm, just can't be chopped. The 470mm would apply to semi auto centerfires (restricted).
Infidel and Moe, as far the blacked out names, I did that because I don't know the legalities or forum rules regarding posting a private email, that's why I just left the @rcmp portion of the email address. If someone is legitimately interested in the email address, then feel free to pm me.
You should query him back and say it does not help. He has indicated that muzzle devices for what ever purpose do not count towards OAL but you are unable to find any supporting statements within the Criminal code to support that.
From the code itself
************************************************************************************************************************************
“prohibited firearm”
« arme à feu prohibée »
“prohibited firearm” means
(a) a handgun that
(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or
(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,
but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or
(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or
(d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;
“restricted firearm”
« arme à feu à autorisation restreinte »
“restricted firearm” means
(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,
(b) a firearm that
(i) is not a prohibited firearm,
(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and
(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,
(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or
(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm;
Barrel length
(2) For the purposes of this Part, the length of a barrel of a firearm is
(a) in the case of a revolver, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder, and
(b) in any other case, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber,
but does not include the length of any component, part or accessory including any component, part or accessory designed or intended to suppress the muzzle flash or reduce recoil.
***************************************************************************************************************************
There is nothing in the above that indicates anything that is specifically excluded from OAL calculations where there is specific exclusions for barrel length. I would assert that anything that is mechanically connected to the firearm, I would put butt pads and flashhiders in that category, would count toward OAL as they are not specifically excluded.
From the code itself
************************************************************************************************************************************
“prohibited firearm”
« arme à feu prohibée »
“prohibited firearm” means
(a) a handgun that
(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or
(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,
but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or
(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or
(d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;
“restricted firearm”
« arme à feu à autorisation restreinte »
“restricted firearm” means
(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,
(b) a firearm that
(i) is not a prohibited firearm,
(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and
(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,
(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or
(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm;
Barrel length
(2) For the purposes of this Part, the length of a barrel of a firearm is
(a) in the case of a revolver, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder, and
(b) in any other case, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber,
but does not include the length of any component, part or accessory including any component, part or accessory designed or intended to suppress the muzzle flash or reduce recoil.
***************************************************************************************************************************
There is nothing in the above that indicates anything that is specifically excluded from OAL calculations where there is specific exclusions for barrel length. I would assert that anything that is mechanically connected to the firearm, I would put butt pads and flashhiders in that category, would count toward OAL as they are not specifically excluded.
I know exactly what you are saying. I couldn't find it specifically written in the criminal code either at the time. This was atleast a year ago that I asked this question, I don't even have the gun anymore. I was just trying to let people know that according to some guy who is probably sitting in the lab right now, that they do not consider the muzzle device as part of OAL. Like I said, I didn't like the answer, and like many aspects of the firearms act, it doesn't entirely make sense. But for legal purposes, this is what he said. My interest in the subject has since fizzled, since I don't have the gun, but feel free the pm me and I can pass his along.
