Issue with old 44 Mag ammo

Cleftwynd

Cleftwynd

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I have several boxes of UMC 240 grain lead (MED LOADING) that I really dont want to fire out of my 44 carbine. They were old stock from a gun shop that had a small fire. They are corroding as they were soaked by the fire hoses that wet everything down in the ammo dept for safety reasons.

I wish I had a revovler to burn them off in and reuse the brass, but I do not....

Is there a way to lube them for use in the carbine? Or should I just give them to someone with an appropriate frearm...


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won't they already have lube in the groves?

tumble them to get a clean lead head. or steel wool and a couple of twists.
 
The cases are fine, it's the lead (no jacket) bullets that are corroding as there is NO lube or coating on what protrudes from the case. I could just single fire them I suppose, the 44 Carbine is a pain to tear down for a good cleaning so I won't run them into the magazine.
 
Do not tumble loaded ammo. It may change the physical properties of the powder granules, making it burn faster. I see you say these are medium loads, which may indicate that the cases will have more space for the powder granules to fall around and grind into finer, faster burning powder.
 
Oh, it is the bullet that is corroded, not the case. Do you have a tumbler? Tumble them overnight with some polish in the media. the bullets will be nice and shiny.

Tumbling will not bother the power. ignore that urban myth.
 
I have tumbled loaded cases before, many times. My only concern was running the lead solids without anything on the lead through the carbine, it HATES getting dirty. I'll polish them up and try a few through it and check for leading or fouling. Thanks fellas
 
RSA1 said:
Do not tumble loaded ammo. It may change the physical properties of the powder granules, making it burn faster. I see you say these are medium loads, which may indicate that the cases will have more space for the powder granules to fall around and grind into finer, faster burning powder.
Click to expand...

Here we go again!

Just simply not true. Lots of research available on this.

Ted
 
RSA1 said:
Do not tumble loaded ammo. It may change the physical properties of the powder granules, making it burn faster. I see you say these are medium loads, which may indicate that the cases will have more space for the powder granules to fall around and grind into finer, faster burning powder.
Click to expand...

BS, back that up.
 
Wow, what an emotional (rude ?) outburst. Did I insult someone's religion?

If what I believe is fact is actually incorrect, I would like to be the first to learn about my incorrect facts, and admit that my knowledge was incorrect. I have more than once read about the danger of tumbling loaded cartridges in different reloading and shooting publications, so I believe it to be fact. This information was published in reputable publications, not on a unreviewed forum or the back of a public toilet's door. Unfortunately I do not walk around with page from a book or magazine for each fact regarding firearms, ammo and reloading, so I cannot pull it out on demand and give it to you to read. If this has been proved on CGN in the past, I appologize for not knowing it, as I am new to CGN.

So once again, if I am wrong, please refer me to the correct facts in a reputable publication. I think we owe it to ourselves and others.

Perhaps this is something which we can very easily do some emperical research on, and report back to this forum. However do not blame me or CGN if you are injured or your firearm is damaged. There are other phenomena which are known but could not be duplicated in a laboratory, such as SEE (Secondary Explosion Effect". This is where a rifle is destroyed (usually a .30 calibre Magnum) when a very small charge of slow burning powder is ussed in these large cases. So perhaps even if we canot simulate it in a lab, it does not mean that it does not exist. There are enough people out there who believe in Santa and angels, but these have not been duplicated in a lab.

Looking forward to learning more!
 
It's an old myth from old men and old reloading manuals. I have no idea if it was once true (black powder maybe?) or was just some theory someone wrote in a book back pre-internet that became more and more widespread. I mean people thought tomatoes where poisonous for decades before they realized they where delicious (pre 1600 I believe). It's pretty much the most widespread ammunition myth out there and some people really want it to stop going around. Several people on these forums have tested it by tumbling loaded ammo (uncompressed loads so lots of room to move around) for several days and then chronographing the bullets against identical loads that weren't tumbled. So far no one has been able to find any increased pressure or velocity with any type of powder. There are many members that actually tumble their reloads before firing to get rid of grease/lube and have fired hundreds or thousands of rounds like this with no issues.

As for secondary explosion effects I have also heard this stated a few times but have never seen any confirmation about it. I have done some super light powder charges under cast bullets in .308 Win up to .300 Win Mag and .45-70 with fast, medium, and slow powders. Every time I use a slow powder it fails to burn completely (or at all in some cases) and leaves identifiable powder grains in the chamber and barrel. Super low velocity and no case expansion (lots of carbon on the case and in the chamber) which points to very low pressure. With light loads my guess on exploding guns would be that the previous projectile never left the barrel and the next round was fired. Even with greatly reduced loads that is still quite dangerous. I've had bullets lodged in the barrel from exceptionally light loads (cat sneeze loads) but I noticed there was no new hole in the target so I checked the bore.
 
I myself tested the "do not tumble loaded ammunition" theory. I tested 6 types of factory ammunition each in a different chambering. I also tested 15 different hand loads I had on hand at the time. No, I did not log the data as it was years ago and just to satisfy my own curiosity. I first tumbled each for 4 hours, no change was found, so I then tumbled the next batch for 24 hours, no change was found again.

So for MYSELF, I have no doubts it is safe, unless someone can prove otherwise, not just because "so and so" posted it on an Internet forum.
 
The bullets should have lube in the grooves inside the case and work fine as long as the outside can be cleaned up a little.

Another idea might be to find someone local who is willing to trade you the loaded rounds for empty brass. Maybe even 100 of yours for 150 empties or something.
 
I've fired plenty of rounds that have been tumbled but not for very long. If you want to find out for yourself, why not load a couple, tumble them for a while, pull the bullets and examine for your self?
 
Geez but that all sounds like a lot to go through just to avoid having to spend a few minutes with an oily cloth wiping them down.

About 4 seconds per, wash yer hands afterwards. Lead oxide isn't all that good fer ya.

Cheers
Trev
 
Once I dug em all out I have 11 boxes of them, have had them for many years. That's 550 rnds lol

I might just use steel wool and polish them up by hand anyway as I don't have any dry media for the vibrator anyway. All I have is the thumblers and stainless pins.
 
Cleftwynd said:
Once I dug em all out I have 11 boxes of them, have had them for many years. That's 550 rnds lol

I might just use steel wool and polish them up by hand anyway as I don't have any dry media for the vibrator anyway. All I have is the thumblers and stainless pins.
Click to expand...

if you have a drill press, or drill and a vice, then put some cloth or steel wool some how into the drill and then you just need to push each round into the drill for a few seconds. won't take long at all!
 
Hi LUTNIT (Post#13) and othr CGN,

In the latest edition of the Handloader magazine (#281 Dec 2012, p46 - 51), there is a clear and factual article about causes of high pressure and S.E.E. (Secondary Explosion Effect). Perhaps other CGN members will also enjoy reading this article by a well published and highly respected author, Terry Wieland. Any person who has had the privilege to read his book "Dangerous Game Rifles" will know that he is well informed and has more experience than many of us put together, myself included.

I have read about S.E.E. a few times in the past 30 years and believed it existed, even though it has not been duplicated in a laboratory, and today I still believe it exists. I have also read of the existence of angels, but I do not believe in angels. So in the end some of the reloading principles and practices we use / support, like angels, may only be a belief.

I would rather err on the safe side and do not use very light loads of slow burning "magnum" powders in my reloads. But then I am a coward who still has both eye, all 10 fingers and excellent hearing in both ears. I do not like hurting or bleeding, and avoid gaining experience by "Trial and Terror".

Happy reloading!

RSA1
 
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