Issues with Ross Rifle?

Dimitri

Dimitri

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Any particular issues with Ross rifles in relation to the receivers strength? :confused:

Not too worried about assembling the bolt wrong. But I was wondering, if it could accept "high" pressure ammunition to be converted into a magnum rifle?

Dimitri
 
Ross used a working pressure of 55,000 psi (if my memory serves me right). I would think that you'd really have to work at it to blow one up. As to the bolt assembly, the ones I had were pinned to prevent that very problem, which was endemic to the M 10. Again, relying on memory, the earlier variants couldn't function on a incorrectly assembled bolt. Also, as the bolt head was visible when going into battery, you could actually see the mechanism lock up. There's a lot of research material handy that you can source out, and I've no doubt that some of the Ross rifle experts on this site will give you more extensive input than mine. Lots of luck.
 
There is nothing "weak" about the Ross, it just has had its name dragged through the mud for so many years, most people think they are crap. There was actually a guy who dedicated articles just to badmouth the Ross Rifle. The Ross will not function with a incorrectly assembled bolt, most were even riveted to prevent incorrect assembly. All the horror stories of the Ross "blowing up" were just that, horror stories. A possible scenario was the operator had a misfire, opened the action, and the round went off with the action open. All this info comes from the competent gunsmith i had a talk with who owns several Ross's.
 
Dimitri said:
Thanks guys, but I'm considering a rebarrel to a "magnum" round and wanted to make sure it wont be over stressed. :)

Dimitri
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The M10 action is plenty strong enough. Ross designed it with the .280 Ross round in mind, a high pressure Magnum like round.

BTW, those blowup stories are not all wrong. It did happen under the right (wrong) conditions. An unpinned bolt can with a small pull and twist be put in the gun and not lock. You have to know what you are doing.

I very carefully verify the bolt is rotating into lockup. As long as that is working right they are a great, smooth, slick, strong action.

BTW, I have a spare Ross M10 bolt on the way to me that is not locking up. I'll try to document the issue in pics.
 
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The gunsmith I talked to said there was a guy who purposely tried to blow up rifles to find out what they could take. Apparently what happened was, the older rifles that everyone thought were weak, held up better then the modern rifles that were considered to be strong. I think the Ross and Enfield were part of the tests.
 
Dimitri said:
Cause this thread sparked my interest enough to consider building a 276 Enfield before the 338LM that I want to build.

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=4096

A commercial "wildcat" persay as it was officially developed in a Government arsenal but dropped due to the war. Something unique and very uncommon. :)

Dimitri
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Exactly my point...if you're going to spend that much money, make sure you'll be able to fire it.

Oh, btw, from time to time you see Ross sporters for sale on the EE with some .303 wildcat calibre conversion.
 
Well apparently CH/4D has Dies available for about 80$.

The Brass can be formed using 8 X 68S Magnum brass.

So it seems very feasible. :D

Dimitri
 
Ross M10 action is strong by design.
However there were some quality problems. Some bolt heads were found to be soft and an expedient method of heat treating them was developed. This was to heat the bolt heads with a torch to the proper temperature judged by EYE and then sprinkling hardening compound on them from a salt shaker. This could result in the steel becoming brittle and shattering. I do not know how to spot one of these.
 
green said:
Ross M10 action is strong by design.
However there were some quality problems. Some bolt heads were found to be soft and an expedient method of heat treating them was developed. This was to heat the bolt heads with a torch to the proper temperature judged by EYE and then sprinkling hardening compound on them from a salt shaker. This could result in the steel becoming brittle and shattering. I do not know how to spot one of these.
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I have never heard of this.?! The issue with the bolt heads is they developed a burr that caused the action to not unlock. This was removed with a simple change to the cam angle.

Actions blowing up were a result of putting the bolt back together wrong (against regs then) thus allowing the bolt to close without rotating and locking.

Boom, no head.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
The gunsmith I talked to said there was a guy who purposely tried to blow up rifles to find out what they could take. Apparently what happened was, the older rifles that everyone thought were weak, held up better then the modern rifles that were considered to be strong. I think the Ross and Enfield were part of the tests.
Click to expand...

P.O. Ackley did the testing.

"Ackley was not just a wildcatter, he was a researcher as well, often testing firearms to destruction in the search for information."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._O._Ackley
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
There is nothing "weak" about the Ross, it just has had its name dragged through the mud for so many years, most people think they are crap. There was actually a guy who dedicated articles just to badmouth the Ross Rifle. The Ross will not function with a incorrectly assembled bolt, most were even riveted to prevent incorrect assembly. All the horror stories of the Ross "blowing up" were just that, horror stories. A possible scenario was the operator had a misfire, opened the action, and the round went off with the action open. All this info comes from the competent gunsmith i had a talk with who owns several Ross's.
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You should be careful about believing, and promoting, anecdotal evidence (ie someone said...) Rosses certainly did suffer from bolt blowback, and people were certainly killed. Why do you think armorers riveted the bolts? BTW - I own and shoot several Rosses. There are several possible failure mechanisms that can cause the bolt to blowback under fire.
 
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The rivet in the bolt sleeve was a WW2 conversion.
As far as .276 goes, if dies can be had and cases can be converted from available brass, that is a plus. A custom ground reamer and gauges will likely exceed $300.
Then there is the issue of a magazine. Perhaps one similar to the M-10 .280 sporting rifle magazine could be made. A .303 magazine isn't going to work.
There were improperly heat treated bolts. The expedient remedy was to case harden using blowtorches, cyanide and a water quench. Problem was, the bolts were not made of steel suitable for case hardening. So reheat treated, they were brittle. I would suspect that any bolt ruined this way is not longer in service, and any bolt that was improperly manufactured (the ones that were rehardened) has long ago failed.
A bolt can be assembled incorrectly. If a round can be fired in this condition - there is an excess headspace situation, misfires can result - the bolt assembly will blow back. it might or might not be stopped by the boltstop. It is very easy to observe if a Mark III bolt is locking. A Lee Enfield can be fired without its bolthead, with interesting results; it is also easy to observe the problem. Ignorance and Mark III Ross rifles are a bad combination.
A .276 conversion would likely be possible. If it is necessary to pay someone to do it, it is going to be a very expensive project, even if a salvagable rifle can be had for a song. There would be no strength issue if the action is sound.
 
cosmic said:
You should be careful about believing, and promoting, anecdotal evidence (ie someone said...) Rosses certainly did suffer from bolt blowback, and people were certainly killed. Why do you think armorers riveted the bolts? BTW - I own and shoot several Rosses. There are several possible failure mechanisms that can cause the bolt to blowback under fire.
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I should have worded it better, I am not denying that there were accidents and people were killed.
 
tiriaq said:
Perhaps one similar to the M-10 .280 sporting rifle magazine could be made. A .303 magazine isn't going to work.
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I was thinking of locating a 280 Ross Sporter and building it on it. Due to the fact the magazine should be big enough to adequately feed the 276 Enfield.

tiriaq said:
A Lee Enfield can be fired without its bolthead, with interesting results;
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Have a vedio or pictures of the resulting rifle? :eek:

tiriaq said:
There would be no strength issue if the action is sound.
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Sounds good. :D

Dimitri
 
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