It does not get much more precision than this.

Fantasic shooting, I've got a similar caliber and nice equipment but not the experience to do that yet.

Very, very nice.

I considered a March scope and was warned off from them.... His seems to be doing good.

M.
 
Odds are the rifle was a fairly pedestrian offering to those familiar with BR rifles. The reason? The formula for building a winning LV rifle was pretty well established by the late senties and hasn't changed much. What has changed is the quality of commonly available actions and the quality of barrel fitting. Techniques have been refined by accuracy gunsmiths over the years to where results are somewhat more predictable than they were 30 years ago. The best rifle of thirty years ago would likely be equal to the best today but the average rifle of today is much better than the average of thirty years ago.
Triggers today work the same but wear different names. Ditto for scope mounts. Stock designs are refined and may well be superior. Scopes are optically better and mechanically equal to 30 year old scopes. When shooters are having the innards glued in place and eschewing internal adjustments, there is a fundamental problem with scope design.
Bench techniques by top shooters are somewhat better, I suspect. In addition, top shooters are trying to shoot a sub-.1 group. They are trying not to settle for a .150". This mindset results in better groups and better aggs. Since I am satisfied to just cluster my shots together, I shoot big groups and big aggs:(.
By the way, I have never shot a 200 yard group under .2`. Not on the best day I ever saw and not even an internet group. That is good stuff. Regards, Bill.
 
Lester Bruno recently did all the R&D for John Krieger on gain twist barrels for short range BR and Bruno is currently campaigning them. I wonder if this was a conventional rifling or a gain twist?

Good equipment makes it possible for these guys to pull this off, but at the end of the day it was shooting skill and a 3-coil steamer full of luck that make the grade.

Impressive shooting.
 
I, like most other people from the internet, can regularly do that with a well used, fair condition .303, with surplus ammo, standing, with the volley sight at 800yds, in a tornado.

But really, awsome shooting. I am lucky to do that with one shot.
 
Wow........

I would be extremely excited if I could pull off consistant .5" groups. .047"? that's insane.
 
I especially like the fact that the group was made with what a assume could be called a "practical/field" rifle since it's a varminter as opposed to a full-blooded benchrest specific machine. Wonder what it looks like...

Leeper said:
When shooters are having the innards glued in place and eschewing internal adjustments, there is a fundamental problem with scope design.
Click to expand...

This is what always puzzled me... You'd think these shooters would put as much cash into their optics as they would into the rest of their rigs, instead you hear about these pedestrian low-brow brands being used and altered somehow. Aren't there any scope manufacturers that cater to the BR market without their users having to alter them?
 
redman said:
I especially like the fact that the group was made with what a assume could be called a "practical/field" rifle since it's a varminter as opposed to a full-blooded benchrest specific machine. Wonder what it looks like...



This is what always puzzled me... You'd think these shooters would put as much cash into their optics as they would into the rest of their rigs, instead you hear about these pedestrian low-brow brands being used and altered somehow. Aren't there any scope manufacturers that cater to the BR market without their users having to alter them?
Click to expand...

It would be a full tilt BR rifle. LV - Light Varmint, refers to the class only. 10.5 lb rifles. Single shot action, 2 oz trigger, no safety, tight necked cartridge, BR stock, etc etc. These in no way resemble a field rifle or would be practical for the field.

As to the scopes, this has been the weak link in BR for decades. Shifting point of aim in all brands has long been identified. We are talking shifts of .1 moa or less, undetectable to the shooter except in a BR rifle. Once you have a scope that is known performer, BR shooters treasure it like a good barrel, and don't care what brand it is.

There have been many people trying to resolve this shifting POA with mixed success over the years. The latest attempt is March, which has gained a following now and appears to the best choice out there, but at a cost of $2000 USD and an extra 4oz of weight doesn't mean it has been universally adopted.
 
redman said:
I especially like the fact that the group was made with what a assume could be called a "practical/field" rifle since it's a varminter as opposed to a full-blooded benchrest specific machine. Wonder what it looks like...



This is what always puzzled me... You'd think these shooters would put as much cash into their optics as they would into the rest of their rigs, instead you hear about these pedestrian low-brow brands being used and altered somehow. Aren't there any scope manufacturers that cater to the BR market without their users having to alter them?
Click to expand...

Light Varmint is a specific Centerfire Benchrest class limiting the weight to 10.5 pounds maximum and with other limitations to stock design. It is shot using sandbags front and rear off a solid bench.

They use expensive optics but a few shooters have experimented with basically locking the internal adjustments using epoxy so there is no movement what ever and using an external mount adjustment that they can lock solid. They feel is there is one thousand of an inch of movement in an internal scope adjustment, that results in larger groups. The weight of a scope is important as well, they want them to be as light as possible so the barrel can be a maximum weight.

Here is an excellent benchrest site to visit... http://benchrest.com/
 
OK, didn't know about the LV being merely a weight class :redface: (live & learn).

I see now why, due to the weight issues, 1" scope tubes seem to be the norm. That benchrest.com site only has dealers under the optics section - not much info... I'm a little sceptical about the shifting POI issue - you're saying all these high-end brands (NF, S&B, Zeiss/Hensoldt, USO, etc.) have POI issues despite the high-cost? Is this documented anywhere? I'd be real disappointed...

Thanks for the info - whatever seems to be the case, this competitor obviously discovered a formula that works for him.
 
redman said:
I see now why, due to the weight issues, 1" scope tubes seem to be the norm. That benchrest.com site only has dealers under the optics section - not much info... I'm a little sceptical about the shifting POI issue - you're saying all these high-end brands (NF, S&B, Zeiss/Hensoldt, USO, etc.) have POI issues despite the high-cost? Is this documented anywhere? I'd be real disappointed...
.
Click to expand...

30mm tubes are becoming more common, the Leu Competiton series is 30mm and so is the March.

The high end scopes all have the same issues. It is related to the W+E adjustments and they way the adjustments hold POA. That combined with their heavy weight and high cost limits their use in competition BR, especially the LV and Sporter classes where you have to deal with the 10.5 weight limit.

As far as I know the March is the only BR scope that deals with the shifting POA issue. They use a different W+E design. All the other manufacturers consider the BR market too small to design a purpose built scope for BR.
 
Please don't fix the scope issue. I need at least one plausible technical reason for having a $hitty score.

I like it! Damed shifting POI... WHy doesn't Nightforce fix that?!? I am going to practice that one!!!

You made my day!
 
Obtunded said:
Please don't fix the scope issue. I need at least one plausible technical reason for having a $hitty score.

I like it! Damed shifting POI... WHy doesn't Nightforce fix that?!? I am going to practice that one!!!

You made my day!
Click to expand...

I prefer the gravitational surge to explain the errant shots.
 
It could be said that Leupold, Bushnell,Weaver, Sightron all make BR specific scopes and they do. However the mechanical aspects of the scopes are essentially the same as ever. The LWBR scopes from Lyman led the way in the production of high powered, light weight, internally adjustable scopes for the purpose.
The 30mm tube does very little as far as short range BR is concerned. One hardly needs the extra adjustment range to switch between 100 and 200 yards.
Keep in mind, the point of impact shift benchrest shooters are concerned with is so miniscule that the rigs most of the so-called "high end" scopes are mounted on are not accurate enough to reveal it. At long range, a .020 moa shift is lost in the wind and mirage. Regards, Bill.
 
Leeper said:
Keep in mind, the point of impact shift benchrest shooters are concerned with is so miniscule that the rigs most of the so-called "high end" scopes are mounted on are not accurate enough to reveal it. At long range, a .020 moa shift is lost in the wind and mirage. Regards, Bill.
Click to expand...

So all the $$$ some of us put down on said "high-end" scopes goes where exactly? Import costs??? :p
 
To answer a few

redman said:
I especially like the fact that the group was made with what a assume could be called a "practical/field" rifle since it's a varminter as opposed to a full-blooded benchrest specific machine. Wonder what it looks like...



This is what always puzzled me... You'd think these shooters would put as much cash into their optics as they would into the rest of their rigs, instead you hear about these pedestrian low-brow brands being used and altered somehow. Aren't there any scope manufacturers that cater to the BR market without their users having to alter them?
Click to expand...

of your questions or comments. Go to the site that Guntech mentioned Benchrest.com and look around for a picture of a full blown 10.5lb Benchrest rifle. They are NOT built off of mass produced factory actions. 2 of the top actions used at present are BAT and Kelby's Stolle Panda. Triggers are 2oz Jewell or the new Kelby 2oz trigger. Stock brands are many but the forends are 3" wide and flat in the front. Scopes of choice are Leupold, Weaver, Sightron, and the new March. Barrels made by Krieger, Bartlein, Shilen are probably the top.

In regards to optics it is not the cost but the ability to hold POI 100%. When you are trying to shoot 5 shot groups and put them into the .1's 100% POI is a must. Price does not guarantee that. March appears to be the ONLY company that has stepped up to the plate to address this issue for the shortrange benchrest shooter. Personally for the cost of a March I would freeze my Weavers, and put externally adjustable mounts. I may suffer in clarity in comparison to the March but I still have money in my pocket.

Bottom line Benchrest is more than just old guys shooting off of a bench. There is a lot involved.

CBY
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom