ITAR....strikes again

Sambaru said:
That is correct so it could technically be legal depending on the circumstances but we have all seen what happens to people who have used a firearm for self defence, even with only firing warning shots in Ian Thomson's case. Technically legal so you won't go to jail but you probably will have PAL and guns taken away and definitely better have the money for a lawyer... may as well be illegal in my opinion.
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That's kind of a defeatist, glass half empty view. If we all had views like that we might as well get in line and turn in all our firearms right now.

I am in no way making light of the ordeal that Ian Thompson went through. I think it is shameful that a stand up citizen should have to go through our legal system and it shouldn't have happened, but, he was acquitted of all charges and case law was developed that can only help us.

Briefcase_Wanker said:
True.... But lawyers are expensive and I have a mortgage...
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So, why were you planning on going to Florida for the training? You initially sounded like you wanted to develop your skills in dealing with a defensive situation. If you want to just shoot paper you don't need to learn from Costa and Haley.
 
In Canada, a handgun can be used for self defense. When you beat the attacker over the head with the opaque, locked case, the gun and trigger lock will add more weight, making it a more effective deterrent, provided that, in all circumstances, the route between your home and the approved range is reasonably direct.
 
homer76 said:
That's kind of a defeatist, glass half empty view. If we all had views like that we might as well get in line and turn in all our firearms right now.

I am in no way making light of the ordeal that Ian Thompson went through. I think it is shameful that a stand up citizen should have to go through our legal system and it shouldn't have happened, but, he was acquitted of all charges and case law was developed that can only help us.



So, why were you planning on going to Florida for the training? You initially sounded like you wanted to develop your skills in dealing with a defensive situation. If you want to just shoot paper you don't need to learn from Costa and Haley.
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I think it's good training regardless if I can use it in defensive situation or not. just because using a handgun in Canada for defence is pretty much a no go doesn't mean I can't still train for it.... And standing still in a firing line at an indoor range and firing at a 10 ring does get boring.
 
Briefcase_Wanker said:
I think it's good training regardless if I can use it in defensive situation or not. just because using a handgun in Canada for defence is pretty much a no go doesn't mean I can't still train for it.... And standing still in a firing line at an indoor range and firing at a 10 ring does get boring.
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Fine then, get some training. I encourage it. But ditch the losing attitude, "lawyers are expensive and I have a mortgage" and "using a handgun in Canada for defence is pretty much a no go." There are 3 elements to winning a gun fight (combat triad); tactics, marksmanship, and a winning mind. If you have niggling doubts that will affect or delay your response it can only hurt you. If you are justified in using force and it is reasonable, use it. Don't sell local trainers short. There are a lot of excellent trainers out there that aren't affected by ITAR.
 
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Briefcase_Wanker said:
I think it's good training regardless if I can use it in defensive situation or not. just because using a handgun in Canada for defence is pretty much a no go doesn't mean I can't still train for it.... And standing still in a firing line at an indoor range and firing at a 10 ring does get boring.
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Ok, so far I'm with you even if I don't agree, but firing and boring in the same sentence. Now that's criminal.:evil:
 
Madness said:
when i was looking in a course from a another firm i was told i just had to fill out some ITAR FORMS and pay their $500 admin fee
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You'll be required to leave behind, at the border, any and all new
information learned at the course.
 
In Canada even a clear cut case like Ian's takes several years in court and last I heard at least $60k in legal bills.

More afraid of the law than the lawless.
homer76 said:
...If you are justified in using force and it is reasonable, use it....
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The Best Handgun courses are taught by Frontsight.com. and they definitely allow Canadians. I've been there. Their 4 day defensive hand Gun course is great. Going back in Sept. & Dec. for more & their 4 day Uzi Machine Gun course. PM me, I can get you in for much less than their listed prices.:cool:
 
Glock22Guy said:
The Best Handgun courses are taught by Frontsight.com. and they definitely allow Canadians. I've been there. Their 4 day defensive hand Gun course is great. Going back in Sept. & Dec. for more & their 4 day Uzi Machine Gun course. PM me, I can get you in for much less than their listed prices.:cool:
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Interesting...on their website they were charging 2k for the 4 day hand gun course. Costa was only charging 695
 
Briefcase_Wanker said:
Interesting...on their website they were charging 2k for the 4 day hand gun course. Costa was only charging 695
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You get what You pay for!! the Frontsight courses were 9 hours a day, lots of knowledge too , the was 4 instructors in my class as Well (3 plus the main guy going up and down the line). I doubt you get that. Besides I can get you in for $600 !!
 
There are a couple of ways around the high "advertised" cost of Frontsight. Virtually no one pays full pop. The decider on who gets ITAR'd and who doesn't is what and who they teach, if it's a full out course where you're possibly going to be squaded with SWAT and SEALS, it's ITAR'd. You can get some truly excellent training here in Canada, including Larry Vickers curriculum, from Phase Line Green and there are a few former military guys teaching courses. Rob Furlong is teaching 'long range shooting skills' and some former CF protective detail guys are teaching handgun and carbine. I'd strongly recomend Phase Line Green - great stuff. Take a look at some of the videos in the 'Training' section below the EE.
 
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Regarding Front Site... If you get on their mailing list you will get emails nearly every day, but among them are frequent deep discount offers for various courses, including the 4 day defensive pistol. I got a 'coupon' a few years ago for US$69...and I plan to cash it in this November. In short, with a bit of patience, it's do-able for an easy price.
 
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