contaucreek
CGN Regular
- Location
- Methropolitan Haliburton Ont
Hi guys. How can you tell if a Model 37 featherweight will slam fire?
Ithica 37
- Thread starter contaucreek
- Start date
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
One way would be to take it out and try it.
Newer guns have a disconnector but I can't tell you how to identify it.
Newer guns have a disconnector but I can't tell you how to identify it.
contaucreek
CGN Regular
- Location
- Methropolitan Haliburton Ont
Ok did that. I dry fired then racked the action while holding the trigger but didn't hear a sear drop or anything.
contaucreek
CGN Regular
- Location
- Methropolitan Haliburton Ont
Ok thanks guys
Ithaca 37 pump: Slam Fire
Slam Fire: my opinion on slam fire may go against the norm, I don't care for it at all. In this day and age, it should be possible to have a 'proper' trigger in pump shotgun. One that allows you let go of the held trigger after a new round is chambered, to let you pull the trigger again to fire the shell. Same as the trigger on an AR. I'll step off the soap box now.
Historically: The Winchester 1897 was the first pump action shotgun to be able to be slam fired. The proper way to shot the shotgun is to: pull the trigger and fire a round, release the trigger and pump in a new round, put the trigger to fire this round. The 1897 trigger did not have a disconnect, if you held the trigger, it would fire when the bolt was in battery. This is adjustable, IOW, there is an adjustment (a small screw) that you set for when the hammer will drop. In WWI, slam fire was a good thing, as in the heat of the battle, sometimes soldiers would forget to release the trigger, but it didn't matter, as the shotgun would fire on it's own as soon as the bolt was in battery. I suppose you could refer to it as a fully automatic pump shotgun, pull the trigger and pump until you are out of ammunition. If a semi-auto had a trigger like the 1897, it would be full auto.
So, militarily speaking, slam fire trigger versus disconnecting trigger, may even be an advantage. The 37 was also used in police forces and the military. It had a trigger that would slam fire. It was not built like the 1897 trigger. It looks completely different. Holding the trigger down, allows a pin to let the hammer fall at the end of the pump stroke. This is how the first generation 37's worked.
Then, later on, when slam fire was no longer in vogue, especially not with the firearms legal department, Ithaca removed the pin that automatically activated the trigger if it was held down. This is a really poor fix, if you hold the trigger down and pump in a new round, it pretty much incapacitates the gun, releasing the trigger and pulling it again does nothing, as described in an earlier post, the hammer just follows the bolt forward. I had one of this generation, I think it can be converted back, IMO.
The latest Ithaca 37's, if my information is correct, have a re-designed disconnecting trigger, they probably can't be made to slam fire.
That being said, any shotgun can be made to slam fire. All one needs to do is jamb or weld the firing pin to stick out from the bolt, just like on a semi-auto that fires from the bolt open position. IOW, the trigger releases the bolt, and the bolt fires the shell. I've already made my position on slam fire fairly clear, so stating my position on doing such a modification would be moot.
When I bought my first 1897, I felt compelled to try the slam fire. Honestly, it scared me, having a gun fire without pulling the trigger, it just seems wrong to me. Certainly for a pump shotgun. I learned to shoot shotgun on an 870, and although I shot the odd model 12 and Ithaca 37 back in the day, I was unaware that they would slam fire. Shooting firearms is a discipline, and releasing the trigger during the pump is my discipline. I've fired automatic rifles, shooting it felt natural, because a machine gun is designed to keep on firing until the trigger is released. IMO, it is a design flaw if a pump shotgun will slam fire.
If you search on the 37, you will find pictures of the different triggers.
Nitro
PS: I agree, scary questions indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOJJm_cSRds
Slam Fire: my opinion on slam fire may go against the norm, I don't care for it at all. In this day and age, it should be possible to have a 'proper' trigger in pump shotgun. One that allows you let go of the held trigger after a new round is chambered, to let you pull the trigger again to fire the shell. Same as the trigger on an AR. I'll step off the soap box now.
Historically: The Winchester 1897 was the first pump action shotgun to be able to be slam fired. The proper way to shot the shotgun is to: pull the trigger and fire a round, release the trigger and pump in a new round, put the trigger to fire this round. The 1897 trigger did not have a disconnect, if you held the trigger, it would fire when the bolt was in battery. This is adjustable, IOW, there is an adjustment (a small screw) that you set for when the hammer will drop. In WWI, slam fire was a good thing, as in the heat of the battle, sometimes soldiers would forget to release the trigger, but it didn't matter, as the shotgun would fire on it's own as soon as the bolt was in battery. I suppose you could refer to it as a fully automatic pump shotgun, pull the trigger and pump until you are out of ammunition. If a semi-auto had a trigger like the 1897, it would be full auto.
So, militarily speaking, slam fire trigger versus disconnecting trigger, may even be an advantage. The 37 was also used in police forces and the military. It had a trigger that would slam fire. It was not built like the 1897 trigger. It looks completely different. Holding the trigger down, allows a pin to let the hammer fall at the end of the pump stroke. This is how the first generation 37's worked.
Then, later on, when slam fire was no longer in vogue, especially not with the firearms legal department, Ithaca removed the pin that automatically activated the trigger if it was held down. This is a really poor fix, if you hold the trigger down and pump in a new round, it pretty much incapacitates the gun, releasing the trigger and pulling it again does nothing, as described in an earlier post, the hammer just follows the bolt forward. I had one of this generation, I think it can be converted back, IMO.
The latest Ithaca 37's, if my information is correct, have a re-designed disconnecting trigger, they probably can't be made to slam fire.
That being said, any shotgun can be made to slam fire. All one needs to do is jamb or weld the firing pin to stick out from the bolt, just like on a semi-auto that fires from the bolt open position. IOW, the trigger releases the bolt, and the bolt fires the shell. I've already made my position on slam fire fairly clear, so stating my position on doing such a modification would be moot.
When I bought my first 1897, I felt compelled to try the slam fire. Honestly, it scared me, having a gun fire without pulling the trigger, it just seems wrong to me. Certainly for a pump shotgun. I learned to shoot shotgun on an 870, and although I shot the odd model 12 and Ithaca 37 back in the day, I was unaware that they would slam fire. Shooting firearms is a discipline, and releasing the trigger during the pump is my discipline. I've fired automatic rifles, shooting it felt natural, because a machine gun is designed to keep on firing until the trigger is released. IMO, it is a design flaw if a pump shotgun will slam fire.
If you search on the 37, you will find pictures of the different triggers.
Nitro
PS: I agree, scary questions indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOJJm_cSRds
Last edited:
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The term 'slam fire" is actually one that is misused quite a bit. A slam fire is when the round will fire as soon as the bolt is in battery whether you pull the trigger or not and this isn't the case with the M37's. They're the same as the earlier M12's or M97's that will fire if you hold the trigger back while cycling the action and there's a big difference, once you release the trigger then the gun wont fire. In other words, a slam fire is when you don't intend to have a round go off as opposed to when you do!
I have always felt if you are holding the trigger in a 'fire' position and you pump the action and cycle a fresh round into the chamber the gun should fire... your finger was directing it to fire... but for those who could not figure out how to pump and cycle and remove their finger from the trigger the manufacturers had to come up with a disconnector that would aid the incompetent operators.... and in the long run it was a wise move.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
From what I can figure out, there are 5 different type of triggers found on Ithaca 37's.
1) What guys here are referring to as "slam fire", or a round going off every time the action is cycled with the trigger held in the fire position.
2) A model with a feature in the action where the first round will fire but when the action is cycled with the trigger held back, the hammer will follow the bolt up but not allow it to fire.
3) A disconnector model that will cycle but not fire until the trigger is released and pulled again.
4) A disconnector model that will not allow the bolt to be cycled until the trigger is released forward.
5) The altered model in which some one has altered the action such as removing the disconnector.
1) What guys here are referring to as "slam fire", or a round going off every time the action is cycled with the trigger held in the fire position.
2) A model with a feature in the action where the first round will fire but when the action is cycled with the trigger held back, the hammer will follow the bolt up but not allow it to fire.
3) A disconnector model that will cycle but not fire until the trigger is released and pulled again.
4) A disconnector model that will not allow the bolt to be cycled until the trigger is released forward.
5) The altered model in which some one has altered the action such as removing the disconnector.
Midnight Rider
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ......the Vanishing Point .
tagged for interest .
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Which answers have you shaking in your boots?
madtrapper143
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Steep Rock Lake NWO
I own a 37 and have owned several over the years. I have never been tempted to "slam fire" any one of them. To suggest a possible answer to Cub's question it may be a thing that some shooters just have fun shooting the old girls that way at targets etc. Again not my cup of tea but if a shooter likes "slam firing" his/her Model 37 then have at it. I don't think it would improve any of the shooter's shotgunning skills but it sure would use up some old ammo.
Darryl
Darryl
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't think there is one.
I believe the feature was incorporated into the shotguns for military use and just never taken out until liability started going one way and common sense started going the other way!
