Iver-Johnson M1 Catastrophic Failure

There is a thread in Milsurp with pierced S&B primers. If a piece of that got stuck in the firing pin hole, might cause a slam fire.
 
I have read time and time again , all around the internet and on many forums. If there is a complaint of something catastrophic happening to a gun, 8 times out of 10 the ammo was Sellier and Belliot. I certainly had VERY SNAPPY RECOIL from the 9mm ammo I just finished shooting. (I am glad I only bought one box of it). I think that they load many different calibers way too hot, and if anything untowards happens while shooting, such as a bolt that is 1mm out-of-battery, the extra heat from the ammo will "tip the scale".
 
Can never say never, but I doubt it's the ammo. I've run quite a bit of S&B carbine ammo through two of mine without issue. It is also cleaner burning than all the other brands. I've also Chronographed it alongside Federal and Winchester ammo as well. They all average around 2000fps through my 18.6" barrels. S&B carbine ammo is certainly no hotter than either Amercian brands.

I can't see from the pics if the left bolt lug is damaged or not. My guess is the solid head area of the cartridge ruptured from an out of battery ignition, and took the slide an part of the stock with it. I'm also guessing that the mag got blown out of the magwell, as it appears there is damage to the area where the mag release was.
 
I agree re S&B

sgt.rock said:
I have read time and time again , all around the internet and on many forums. If there is a complaint of something catastrophic happening to a gun, 8 times out of 10 the ammo was Sellier and Belliot. I certainly had VERY SNAPPY RECOIL from the 9mm ammo I just finished shooting. (I am glad I only bought one box of it). I think that they load many different calibers way too hot, and if anything untowards happens while shooting, such as a bolt that is 1mm out-of-battery, the extra heat from the ammo will "tip the scale".
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My experience with Sellier&Bellot has been similar, flattened primers and pierced primers in more than one firearm. Of course your results may vary but I will no longer use that brand.The ammo is very clean burning and brass seems good but maybe loaded abit hot or thin primers?
 
big bear said:
My experience with Sellier&Bellot has been similar, flattened primers and pierced primers in more than one firearm. Of course your results may vary but I will no longer use that brand.The ammo is very clean burning and brass seems good but maybe loaded abit hot or thin primers?
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Hey Big Bear, my sentiments exactly
 
same here regards S&B; flat primers, with holes and the impression there loaded hot when the bang switch is tickled. And that's their .308 Winchester I'm talkin' about.

Love the brass tho.
 
Kevin M. said:
That's like saying that you don't want to shoot a .22 or a .308 because they have had catastrophic failures...

Chit happens, sometimes the fault of the shooter, sometimes the ammo, sometimes the gun, and in the odd case, all three were to blame.


Sucks about the gun for sure though.
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With you on that. We want to play with cool toys...sometimes they bite for no apparent reason.
Race cars, motorcycles & airplanes too.
Wear the safety gear and enjoy. Can't hide your head in the sand because something might happen.
 
velocity , pressure, not same ,same me thinks

jakester said:
Can never say never, but I doubt it's the ammo. I've run quite a bit of S&B carbine ammo through two of mine without issue. It is also cleaner burning than all the other brands. I've also Chronographed it alongside Federal and Winchester ammo as well. They all average around 2000fps through my 18.6" barrels. S&B carbine ammo is certainly no hotter than either Amercian brands.

I can't see from the pics if the left bolt lug is damaged or not. My guess is the solid head area of the cartridge ruptured from an out of battery ignition, and took the slide an part of the stock with it. I'm also guessing that the mag got blown out of the magwell, as it appears there is damage to the area where the mag release was.
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I am not an engineer, but , I am pretty sure I have read a bunch of places that velocity and even primer appearance is not an accurate way to judge chamber pressure issues. I believe there is a device specifically for measuring that, the reloading manuals frequently discuss this. But flattened primers and pierced primers occurring at all, much less with any frequency makes me very leery.My 2 cents, take care!
 
I have an Inland M1. Used a fair bit, but in great shape. A couple of years ago, while shooting surplus ammo from the Dominican Republic, the bolt head disintegrated. No damage other than the bolt. Upon examining the spent casings, there were a lot of crushed primers. This was my first time using this ammo. A friend, who reloads, broke down the remaining ammo to find a wide variation in the powder charges. Seems a lot of the ammo was overloaded. Now I know that you were not using surplus ammo, but it's worth examining the remaining ammo for being overloaded. I replaced the bolt and it's ok now. Just a thought.
 
I've shot thousands of rounds of S&B in 9mm, 30 Carbine, 45 ACP, 5.56, and of course 7.62x39 - the rounds are loaded to CIP standards, which can (but does not necessarily) mean they are warmer than the diluted stuff they sell in the US for some calibers (especially the 9mm and 223). Let's face facts though, an Iver Johnson carbine isn't a GI carbine, QC was poor and the guns were made to maximize profit by minimizing the cost to produce. Any gun that fires out of battery will go boom.
 
Dr.Lector said:
Sellier & Bellot doesn't produce anything. They re-label.
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PROOF? I call bs on that , maybe some calibers. They have some of the best cleanest burning most accurate 6.5x55 , 54r , .308 and 357 mag i have fired .. Very high quality brass too all labeled s&b on the case head . I have over 10 reloads on some of their 6.5x55 brass still going strong.
 
had a similar incident many years ago with a parts gun ,firing pin broke causing the rifle to fire with just the front half of the round in the chamber,happily i was wearing glasses.
 
Post-war commercially made M-1 clones have been known to have had a number of issues. (Not sure if this includes the newer Kahr/Auto-Ordnance carbines.) It's hard to tell since the bolt lug seems to be shaped different than the USGI bolt, but there doesn't seem to be any damage to the lugs. At first glance it sure looks like an out of battery discharge.

Was the gun re-barreled? I purchased on the CGN classifieds an Inland Div USGI carbine that was re-barreled with a Criterion 18.75" barrel to make it non-restricted. The first time I took it out to the range I noticed immediately that the bolt wasn't locking up. I checked the headspace with a Clymer GO gauge, and it failed. Turns out whoever did the re-barrel job was completely incompetent. The chamber was not reamed after re-barreling, and per Criterion, the chambers are cut short and MUST be reamed.

I know I've learned my lesson. Every used gun I buy gets headspace checked. You never know what kind of putz has his ignorant hands on your gun.

Dr.Lector said:
Sellier & Bellot doesn't produce anything. They re-label.
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This is the first I've heard of that. Any evidence? Or are you referring to old Czech 7.62x39 sold by S&B?
 
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