IVI ammo

blackburn_wrx_2005

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hi folks,

i was referred here by a member from another forum in regards to some questions i have. i bought some M118LR 7.62 ammo stamped with IVI/03. as it is, it's far from accurate in my rem 700 sps .308. what i'm trying to do is reload it using the same powder and bullet to try and improve it's accuracy. the problem is that i don't know what brand or type of powder is in these cartridges. the only thing i can determine is that each round is loaded with about 45 grains of powder and it has 175 grain BTHP bullets. the powder looks like a mix of some spherical and flat (like a coin) shaped powder. if i can determine what type of powder it is, i can get the load charts for it and test it throughout it's entire load range to find out what works best. i have about 240 rounds of this stuff and i have hope for it, i just need to know what type of powder is in it. if anyone has any idea what it might have, i would greatly appreciate it!
 
hi folks,

i was referred here by a member from another forum in regards to some questions i have. i bought some M118LR 7.62 ammo stamped with IVI/03. as it is, it's far from accurate in my rem 700 sps .308. what i'm trying to do is reload it using the same powder and bullet to try and improve it's accuracy. the problem is that i don't know what brand or type of powder is in these cartridges. the only thing i can determine is that each round is loaded with about 45 grains of powder and it has 175 grain BTHP bullets. the powder looks like a mix of some spherical and flat (like a coin) shaped powder. if i can determine what type of powder it is, i can get the load charts for it and test it throughout it's entire load range to find out what works best. i have about 240 rounds of this stuff and i have hope for it, i just need to know what type of powder is in it. if anyone has any idea what it might have, i would greatly appreciate it!

Look man, don't be at that. Trying to guess powder by looking at it is never a good idea. Just take your 175 gr bullets, get a reloading manual and use loads according to what the book says.
 
The powder is similar to BLC2. For banaging away with a M14, the IVI ammo and brass is good stuff.

If you are on a mission for accuracy in a good rifle, the brass is not a good place to start.

If you have 200+ rounds of it, pull the bullets and use them with a good commercial brass and a good match powder, like Varget or RL15.

The IVI brass and powder can be saved to load with some cheap FMJ for plinking.
 
If I'm not mistaken, those milspec cases will need to be loaded about 2 grains lighter than you would load the same powder in a civilian case. The IVI cases are quite durable and work well in an M14/M305
 
Match M118 uses 1 of 2 different propellants,
1) WC846, double base, spheroidal, 44 grains
2) IMR 4895, single base, tubular, 42 grains

this should give you 2,550 fps, plus or minus 30 fps at 78 feet
 
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Trying to identify powder used in commercial or military loaded ammunition is like trying to play Russian Roullete with FIVE of the chambers in the revolver loaded. Most of these cartridges are loaded with a type of powder that is specifically made for the ammunition maker but is NOT available for sale to reloaders. It is VERY dangerous and definitely unhealthy for someone to try to interpolate powders and loads with known powders and loadings.

It is also false economy to use your salvaged powder. At 45 grains per load, you would have to break down 155 cartridges to get ONE pound of powder. Even if you did find a suitable load for your rifle, how are you going to duplicate that load after your initial supply of powder is used up? One pound of a suitalbe KNOWN powder will cost you about $30-$35 in a Gun Shop, and you are going to risk injury and damage to your rifle for that?

Even the maker of a certain brand or type of powder does not know for sure just what the burning rate of a Lot of powder will give. Savvy reloaders will find a load that works well in their rifle, then check the container for the Lot Number, and try to buy more powder from the same Lot Number. MANUFACTURERS also spend a lot of time with expensive equipment testing each lot of powder to see just what the burning characteristics are and then recommend suitable loadings

An example of this is a very well known Shotgun powder Red Dot. Hercules makes a Lot (Batch) of powder using the ingredients for and hoping to get Red Dot. Then then test the powder of this Lot for burning characteristics. If the tests show that the powder falls within the specifications for RED DOT TYPE 80, then it is put into containers and sold to the Public as RED DOT Shotgun Powder. Thus, any Trap or Skeet Shooter can go into the Gun Shop and ask for a can of RED DOT and get a powder of known burning characteristics to use for his target loads.

BUT, what happens if the powder tested does NOT fall within the TYPE 80 guidelines? The Manufacturer has thoroughly tested the Lot of powder and based on this testing, can have an idea for the proper use for it. Let us say that the Powder has a slower burning rate than RED DOT TYPE 80 and would be suitable for heavier hunting shotgun loads. The Manufacturer then contacts several ammunition makers and lets their Research and Ballistic people know that there is say 10,000 pounds of this powder available, and the recommendations as to usage and weights of charges for that usage. The Ammunition Company then requests samples and tests the powder themselves. If the Ammunition Company deems the powder is suitable for their needs, they buy THE WHOLE LOT of powder, and then adjust their loading machines to load a specific amount of that powder in their shotgun shells. When that powder is used up, the Ammunition Company has another Lot of powder ready so that they can continue loading shotshells, but that next lot may have different characteristics and the loading machines may have to be adjusted for it.

Also, the Salvaged powder that you might have just may not be suitable for YOUR rifle. Experienced loaders know that rifles are like fingerprints, each is just a bit different, and you can have two rifles that are identical, but one will shoot all over the place and the other drive tacks, using the same identical load. Any advanced loader has several types of powder, primers, bullets and cases on hand. The change of one component can drastically affect the accuracy of a load ---POWDER is a double variable as it has both TYPE and WEIGHT.

Go onto the Internet and type in ".308 Match Loads" or ".308 Accuracy Loads" and get some information on these using KNOWN powders. Also, use a BULLET that you can get more of because when you use up your present salvaged supply, then what are you going to use if you find an accuracy load for these bullets? Where are you going to get more? If you want to shoot these bullets you have on hand, use them up for practice!

I realize that this Post is long, but take heed of what has been said in it. It is Stupid and Dangerous to try to identify salvaged powder by sight or other means available to a person who is the average or even advanced reloader. There are going to be people who state that they have done it, but there are also Stupid People who race trains to a railroad crossing. Sooner or later, the Train will win one of these races.
 
Yes there is a lot of variables out there. I've got a 6.5x55 swede lot for a Husky 1640. I worked up a load using virgin Prvi brass and got a 1 inch at 100 (or 1MOA) load. For hunting season I thought I'd try the load out using some Winchester and Remington 1x fired brass that I full length sized. Both of these batches were 3 inches + at 100. Same box of bullets, same pound of powder, same lot of primers, only the brass was different.

I'd say your best bet is to sell the IVI ammo and put the money towards components.
 
I found this too.

Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, Special, M118LR (United States): 175-grain (11.3 g) 7.62×51mm NATO Match-grade round specifically designed for long-range sniping. It uses a 175-grain (11.3 g) Sierra Match King Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet. Produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. The propellant's noticeable muzzle flash and temperature sensitivity led to the development of the MK 316 MOD 0 for Special Operations use.

Reading between the lines tells me the Leafs have a better chance at winning the cup the next 5 years in a row, then you do at finding that powder. Good news is you can get the bullets.
 
thanks for the info! i'll probably end up just buying a known powder and use the bullets. i've already done some testing using the ivi cases with hornady 150gr FMJ-BT bullets and found a charge that is giving me just under 1 MOA at 100 yards so i trust the cases. the more reading i've done people are really praising the 175gr bullets so i'm really wanting to find an accurate load for that bullet. varget and rl15 are constantly sold out around here, so i've had to go to imr 4895 (what i've used already) and some blc2, which i haven't had a chance to play with. with the 4895 i was getting good groups right at 43 grains and standard seating depth. i really wish varget and rl15 were available here. i've not had the chance to try them and i've never heard a bad thing about them (must be why they're sold out)! :D
 
There's an old saying along the lines of, "if your .308 won't shoot well with IMR4895, then you have a rifle problem".

For brass you can do a few extras incl trimming to uniform length, deburring flashholes, uniforming primer pockets and batching cases by weight. Keep brass sorted by firing cycles as well. For a bolt gun you can also try neck sizing vs full/partial resizing, but don't do this for a semi-auto.

I've done quite a bit of load development for the .308 and have had good results with 150-175gr bullets using all of BLC2, W748, IMR4064, IMR4895, IMR3031, H4895 and Varget. Varget is good, but contrary to many reports, it isn't necessarily a miracle powder. Its been around for 20 yrs or so now and many were shooting very accurate .308 loads before it hit the streets.

Shoot quality bullets for best accuracy. Any match bullet from 150-175gr is worth a try. My personal favourites are the 155 and 168gr match bullets.
 
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