I have heard different things about various lots of IVI 7.62x51 and consistency. One of them was that different years were better than others. Is there any truth to this? I have a few thousand rounds' worth from a few different years and not sure if it's worth using for precision shooting.
IVI lot quality
- Thread starter oneadam12
- Start date
I have never heard the words "IVI" and "precision" in the same sentence before.
IVI 7.62 is mediocre machine gun fodder. Some lots will group instead of pattern.
Unless your competitive shooting is from the standing position, 7.62 IVI is of no use to you.
Some lots of IVI 5.56 ammo is very good.
Note: Not quite true. You could pull the bullets, neck size the brass re-throw the powder and seat a match bullet. At 100 yards that will cut group size by more than half.
IVI 7.62 is mediocre machine gun fodder. Some lots will group instead of pattern.
Unless your competitive shooting is from the standing position, 7.62 IVI is of no use to you.
Some lots of IVI 5.56 ammo is very good.
Note: Not quite true. You could pull the bullets, neck size the brass re-throw the powder and seat a match bullet. At 100 yards that will cut group size by more than half.
IVI is your Canadian made military ammo and I know nothing about it.
But i do buy bulk once fired American military Lake City brass and is quality is the same or better than Remington or Winchester brass.
Example I bought 300 7.62 LC cases and a didn't find a case neck that varied more than .002 in thickness with much of it .001 or less.
So to answer your question buy some IVI brass and weigh the cases and check to see how much the neck thickness varies.
But i do buy bulk once fired American military Lake City brass and is quality is the same or better than Remington or Winchester brass.
Example I bought 300 7.62 LC cases and a didn't find a case neck that varied more than .002 in thickness with much of it .001 or less.
So to answer your question buy some IVI brass and weigh the cases and check to see how much the neck thickness varies.
I guess I took for granted the fact this was in the reloading forum. I meant to ask about the brass. Already familiar with the comparatively mediocre behaviour of the loaded rounds.
And yes, I realize it will take a different load work up than anything in 308.
I've loaded a bit of IVI 7.62 and tried load development with it. It doesn't shoot any better or worse than mixed-lot range-pickup Win, Rem, or Fed brass in my experience. None of those are close to Lapua or other premium brands for consistency. I've never had issues with it being substantially thicker/lower case capacity. Some people say to drop the load 2gr if using military brass but I've found it's usually in the same +/- less than a full grain between any other random civilian brass manufacturers. I tried weight-sorting some and tried loads with a batch of brass only being +/- 0.5gr and it did help (maybe 1/4 MoA reduction on average) but it still wasn't match brass.
I use it for plinking ammo with FMJ bullets but I don't waste match bullets in military brass anymore. It'll hold 1.25-1.75 MoA out of a good rifle with Hornady FMJ bullets (Campro are significantly worse) but if I want better I go to Lapua brass and ELD-Match bullets.
I use it for plinking ammo with FMJ bullets but I don't waste match bullets in military brass anymore. It'll hold 1.25-1.75 MoA out of a good rifle with Hornady FMJ bullets (Campro are significantly worse) but if I want better I go to Lapua brass and ELD-Match bullets.
OK, brass quality is a different question.
IVI brass is good military brass.
The necks vary in thickness.
The cases vary in weight.
Flash holes need de-burring and crimps need removing.
The result is fair brass.
For precision shooting you want commercial brass all from the same lot #.
I buy Lapua and shoot it out of the box, after champfer the case mouth.
I love IVI brass but I only shoot it in my M14/M305. Properly prepped and weight sorted it beats just about any other commercial brass in a semi-auto. I've tested these cases for longevity in my M14 and found after 15 reloads I just retired them. Sure, the rims were somewhat chewed up but they were still usable. Obviously, they were not loaded as hot as for bolt guns.
This is more or less how I feel, great brass 2nd to LC for shooting out of a semi, ii wouldn't consider using it for precision shooting.
- Location
- sudbury, ontario
Interesting to hear the results that some people are having ..... too have a whack of it ready to go but ...you know work gets in the way ....so it waits
The reasons I don't use IVI brass for precision shooting are all mentioned above by knowledgeable people with first hand experience. Mostly because the prep work on the cases is more than I care to deal with these days.
That being said, when I was actively shooting Hunter Benchrest competitively, I almost exclusively used IVI brass. They type I preferred were the BLANKS. I used them for making match brass, after a LOT OF WORK and for fire forming into 6.5x55 cases which were very hard to come by with with BOXER type flash holes.
I used them for match cases because after sizing/cutting down, depriming, beveling the primer pocket to remove the crimp they were very consistent weight wise. Because the rifles had very tight chambers, the necks had to be turned so that there was .002in of total clearance in the neck area. All of this labor would have been necessary with any other brass available at the time.
The other reason was longevity. I had as many as 75 reloads on that lot 60 count lot of brass. All of them were fully re annealed after 5 firings. They were neck sized only for very tight chamber dimensions.
Anyone that has shot HBR knows the rounds are loaded HOT. What was unusual about my rifle was that it was chambered in 308Win. Most of the other folks used 6ppc/30br etc.
The IVI brass stood up very well.
I also found it to be quite supple when it came to cutting it down to form into some wildcat cases. The extra thickness of the case walls actually became and advantage.
No, I don't bother with the effort anymore. My precision rifles are chambered with a Palma Match reamer so I can utilize the relatively cheap 7.62x51 available. I find that if a case lot isn't accurate enough for the bolt rifle it usually does quite well in the Garand chambered in 7.62x51 done by Purple.
The last case of IVI I opened was all in green plastic bandoleers and all of the ammo had turned green. A half hour in the tumbler with lots of Sunlight detergent cleaned them all up nicely but it was a chore. To many chores and not enough time.
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That being said, when I was actively shooting Hunter Benchrest competitively, I almost exclusively used IVI brass. They type I preferred were the BLANKS. I used them for making match brass, after a LOT OF WORK and for fire forming into 6.5x55 cases which were very hard to come by with with BOXER type flash holes.
I used them for match cases because after sizing/cutting down, depriming, beveling the primer pocket to remove the crimp they were very consistent weight wise. Because the rifles had very tight chambers, the necks had to be turned so that there was .002in of total clearance in the neck area. All of this labor would have been necessary with any other brass available at the time.
The other reason was longevity. I had as many as 75 reloads on that lot 60 count lot of brass. All of them were fully re annealed after 5 firings. They were neck sized only for very tight chamber dimensions.
Anyone that has shot HBR knows the rounds are loaded HOT. What was unusual about my rifle was that it was chambered in 308Win. Most of the other folks used 6ppc/30br etc.
The IVI brass stood up very well.
I also found it to be quite supple when it came to cutting it down to form into some wildcat cases. The extra thickness of the case walls actually became and advantage.
No, I don't bother with the effort anymore. My precision rifles are chambered with a Palma Match reamer so I can utilize the relatively cheap 7.62x51 available. I find that if a case lot isn't accurate enough for the bolt rifle it usually does quite well in the Garand chambered in 7.62x51 done by Purple.
The last case of IVI I opened was all in green plastic bandoleers and all of the ammo had turned green. A half hour in the tumbler with lots of Sunlight detergent cleaned them all up nicely but it was a chore. To many chores and not enough time.
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maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ummm, green plastic bandoliers was Dominion Arsenals, headstamped DA.
In the mid-1980s IVI had such indifferent quality control on their bullets, the DCRA shooters were resorting to .3065 cal barrels to squeeze the eccentric bullets into round. I have one of those barrels. As Ganderite itemized, there are any number of things wrong with the issue ball ammo to rule it out for serious bullseye shooting.
The only reason IVI circulates is because so much was given away to the rifle associations up to the early 90s when in a necessary budget cut, the Army put its money somewhere else. The civilian shooters were obliged to learn to reload and some cottage companies did well supplying remanufactured ammunition. That was also about the time the bullet weight was increased from 147gr to 155gr. Gold Cross used Brazilian CBC headstamped Berdan cases for instance. I think I still have some left over.
In the mid-1980s IVI had such indifferent quality control on their bullets, the DCRA shooters were resorting to .3065 cal barrels to squeeze the eccentric bullets into round. I have one of those barrels. As Ganderite itemized, there are any number of things wrong with the issue ball ammo to rule it out for serious bullseye shooting.
The only reason IVI circulates is because so much was given away to the rifle associations up to the early 90s when in a necessary budget cut, the Army put its money somewhere else. The civilian shooters were obliged to learn to reload and some cottage companies did well supplying remanufactured ammunition. That was also about the time the bullet weight was increased from 147gr to 155gr. Gold Cross used Brazilian CBC headstamped Berdan cases for instance. I think I still have some left over.
That got me thinking. I had to go look. You're absolutely right they are DA 67 stamped on the chargers as well.
I have found the mountains of that CBC headstamp brass at my range. Always messes me up since it's brass but berdan primed. I should note that all of my ivi brass is 11 to 17 headstamped. One small perk of shooting at a range frequently leased by DND who never clean up after themselves.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The CBC brass wasn't the problem. It was badly made in the first place, and then the powder got adulterated when the next guys tried to salvage something from the pile of stink they bought for scrap prices. It then floated north into the States where guys MGs were blowing up. There was a recall issued but several cases clearly missed the long sweeping arm. If you can reload Berdan primers, it probably isn't bad brass. Otherwise, stockpile the empties for when scrap metal prices are good.
Hmm? Late production 7.62 IVI? I wonder if it is any good? What sort of packaging do they leave behind?
Ganderite bought up a bunch of that ammo from International, I believe. He pulled all of the bullets, blended the powder and reloaded it.
I had a bunch that I didn't return. When I read his "FIX" about a year ago, I opened the crates, pulled several thousand bullets, dumped all of the powder into one big lot and reassembled all of it into one big batch of what is reasonably consistent plinking ammo. No, it isn't match quality. Mainly because the bullet weights vary about 3-5 grains from their stated weight and their jackets aren't consistent in thickness.
All of the cartridge boxes are stamped "REFORMADO" or Portuguese for REFORMED. It was all reloaded ammo and again from Ganderite's information, identical looking powders with different burn rates got mixed into the lot.
I never saw any difference in the powder that I pulled from any of the cases. I saved a bit to compare from each crate and watched for anything different. Nothing unusual.
If you have any of those cartridges sitting around, DON'T SHOOT THEM. Chances are that they're fine but there were just enough that were corrupted to make it NOT WORTH THE RISK.
PULL the bullets and dump the powder. If you have several hundred, then just blend it. If you don't, dump that powder and replace it with a suitable powder you have on hand.
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