J. Stevens Marksman Rifle Circa 1920

[Re3iever]

Another vintage rifle joins the collection. J. Stevens Marksman circa 1920. Just bought this rifle at an auction. Taking it to the range tomorrow. I don't know a lot about these rifles I just liked the look of it and it was a decent price.

I believe it was originally chambered in .22 rim fire, at some point it was re-barreled to .22 Hornet. Everything appears right and tight the opening action works solidly. It's a lever operated break action single shot. The scope is a Belding & Mull 3X and a unique feature to me is you can adjust the elevation and windage at both the back and front mounts.

Also if anyone knows what the stamp marks on the underside of the action are that would be great.

I'd really be interested in any information from the founts of knowledge in this group about either rifle or the scope.

Retreever

 

[rcsight]

Another vintage rifle joins the collection. J. Stevens Marksman circa 1920. Just bought this rifle at an auction. Taking it to the range tomorrow. I don't know a lot about these rifles I just liked the look of it and it was a decent price.

I believe it was originally chambered in .22 rim fire, at some point it was re-barreled to .22 Hornet. Everything appears right and tight the opening action works solidly. It's a lever operated break action single shot. The scope is a Belding & Mull 3X and a unique feature to me is you can adjust the elevation and windage at both the back and front mounts.

Also if anyone knows what the stamp marks on the underside of the action are that would be great.

I'd really be interested in any information from the founts of knowledge in this group about either rifle or the scope.

Retreever

Seen the scopes in the Old Gunsights and scopes book.All the B and M scopes were between 1925 and 1940.Interesting scopes.They had a price tag of 300 to 500 on the.

 

[cdnrokon]

did you say .22 Hornet? ....you may have a bomb in your hands when that thing goes off

I do not think that action will handle the pressure of that cartridge.

 

[chasseur]

Yes I wouldn t fire that gun in 22hornet.The thing is it may take one round to destroy it or a 100 but it like playing Russian roulette with your life

 

[Re3iever]

Looks like I was lucky , I took it to the range this morning and fired off 50 rounds - it's hoot to shoot but from the comments it looks like I'm taking my life in my hands. Guess she's a wall hanger from now on. I did take some pics of the action while at the range.

Retreever

 

[NorthCoastBigBore]

That being a tip-up action, the usual concerns about the Favorite action aren't applicable. Just watch for it loosening up since the hinge and lockup are designed for a .22 LR; personally "what's done is done" I'd still fire it with reduced handloads to bring the pressure downand enjoy it. I wouldn't do that conversion myself, but if it's tight and stays tight, well...

Nice looking rifle and a cool scope.

 

[Re3iever]

That being a tip-up action, the usual concerns about the Favorite action aren't applicable. Just watch for it loosening up since the hinge and lockup are designed for a .22 LR; personally "what's done is done" I'd still fire it with reduced handloads to bring the pressure downand enjoy it. I wouldn't do that conversion myself, but if it's tight and stays tight, well...

Nice looking rifle and a cool scope.

Thanks, I reload now for my 45LC and 45-70 so I guess I'll check into .22 Hornet Reloading Dies. Do you have any recommendations for powder and/or bullets?

Retreever

 

[NorthCoastBigBore]

Thanks, I reload now for my 45LC and 45-70 so I guess I'll check into .22 Hornet Reloading Dies. Do you have any recommendations for powder and/or bullets?

Retreever

Unfortunately I don't load for the Hornet, but I do know there are a lot of good cast bullet loads out there for it that should be fun and safe. Bullet Barn I believe has cast bullets for the Hornet if you don't have time to cast your own.

 

[skwerl]

With the Marksman tip-up converting a rimfire to a center fire , I'd be leery
on the configuration of the firing pin.

 

[tiriaq]

Looking at the photo of the firing pin and hammer, I suspect that the firing pin conversion to centerfire was done with a bit of thought.

OK, the rifle was no doubt converted to Hornet some time ago, and was used in that chambering. You fired off 50 rounds, and nothing untoward happened. But I agree that reduced handloads would be an excellent idea.
Those rifles were never intended for use with a round as snappy as a Hornet. With appropriate modest loads, it should be a lot of fun to shoot, and would be an excellent small game rifle.

The only Hornet I have is one of the old Savage bolt actions. The round does have quite a bit of pep. I also have a basket case Marksman, and have been wondering what, if anything, to do with it. Having torn down the action, and had a good look at it, I would not even consider rebuilding it as a Hornet.

 

[chasseur]

Another thing one has to consider is the age of the piece and metal fatigue from repeated firing of a gun that was not originally chambered in that cartridge

 

[tiriaq]

The .22 Winchester Center Fire cartridge used a 45 grain lead bullet at 1550 feet per second. Black powder cartridge when introduced in 1885. The Hornet descended from the .22WCF.
Another Winchester cartridge was the .22 Winchester Rimfire - .22WRF. The .22 Winchester Rimfire Magnum evolved from the .22WRF. The .22WR can be used as a reduced load in .22WRF guns.
I think that loading the Hornet cases with lead bullets staying in the .22LR velocity range would be an excellent option for use in this rifle. When older .22 rifles get loose, they tend to experience case ruptures at the rim. Case heads separate, bits of brass and powder blow back. With the strong Hornet cases, this isn't going to happen.

If the rifle's action is tight, and the barrel on face, it would suggest that whoever built it had some skill.

 

[marshall]

Tiriaq makes good points, I don't handload hornet, but light loads should be O.K.
These guns where made as boy's guns in 22, 25, or 32 rimfire back in the day.
I like that set up. Some one had done a lot of work on that gun.
Kind of like a car I had yrs ago, stomp the gas , car twisted so bad, the window would pop out of the frame. Fun thou.

 

[Re3iever]

Thanks for the comments folks, just to be clear the conversion was done by a professional gunsmith not some guy futzing around in his basement. That said given the preponderance of comments I will definitely be working with my own reloads from now on. I have been researching online since my earlier post and seeing a lot of good comments around Trail Boss 2.0 to 3.8g under a 40g bullet using small pistol primers (rather than small rifle primers). I also reload black powder 45-70 so bp is an option for me. I've already ordered a set of dies.

For those interested here are pics with info on the ammo I did shoot today.

Retreever

 

[tiriaq]

From the appearance of the fired cases, with well defined shoulder and neck, I think the chamber was cut for an improved version of the Hornet.
This could be a good thing, back thrust would be reduced a bit.

 

[mooncoon]

From the appearance of the fired cases, with well defined shoulder and neck, I think the chamber was cut for an improved version of the Hornet.
This could be a good thing, back thrust would be reduced a bit.

I was just about to say the same thing --- looks like it is chambered for the K hornet

cheers mooncoon

 

[Re3iever]

General consensus across several forums is this is indeed chambered for .22 K Hornet. I have found you can get K Hornet dies but in another forum there was a comment about 'neck sizing' and I have found there are indeed (2) versions of the die sets one for full length sizing and one for neck sizing. Till now I have only reloaded straight wall cartridges 45LC and 45-70 can someone explain the difference between full length sizing and neck sizing and is there a preferred version for the K Hornet?

Retreever

 

[tiriaq]

If a bottle necked cartridge stretches at all, it needs to be full length sized to set the shoulder length so that it will chamber freely.
Your rifle has no camming action when the action is closed, so case must fit.
However, if the fired cases rechamber easily, then neck sizing only would work fine.
I am going to assume that the rifle was set up to headspace on the rim. Position of the shoulder would be irrelevant as long as the case chambers. If headspace is controlled by the shoulder, then you may eventually need a FL sizing die. A FL die can be set so that it doesn't touch the shoulder.
Heaven only knows if a commercial K-Hornet die would match the chamber in your rifle, when it comes to FL sizing.
I'd be inclined to get the FL die, but not size any more than absolutely necessary to allow the cases to chamber freely, with enough of the neck sized to hold the bullets.

 

[tiriaq]

Just thinking - this is the sort of cartridge that begs to reloaded with a Lyman 310 tool. Vintage technology for a vintage rifle.

 

[trevj]

Molds worth looking for are the 225107, which makes for about a 37 grain slug, or the 225415, a flat nosed 50-ish grain slug. A 225438 is another choice that would be good.

A handy table showing the mold designs generally available http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

The 415, and 438 are still made and sold by Layman, the 107, you would have to either get lucky at a gun show, or order a replica from the likes of NOE Molds in the States, good folks to deal with.

If you go the NOE route, and do not want to deal with gas checks, you can ask them to remove the GC ring step at the base of the bullet, or just load them and use them without a check.

Take a look at Trail Boss as a powder. Meant to be used to have a fairly high volume of powder so double loads are not likely, and is used a lot by the Cowboy action shooters for mild loads.