Japanese NCO Sword

myenfield

myenfield

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While this is technically a blade, it is also milsurp and I thought it would be appreciated here. While I collect Commonwealth goodies for the most part, I have always been fascinated by Japanese swords. About 15 years ago (or maybe 20?), my parents had a small gun shop that dealt in mostly milsurp. My mother decided to buy this sword and put it away. Probably not what you would expect from the average retired woman, but my mother was anything but average. Fast forward to 2014. My mother passed away a couple of weeks ago after fighting a brief but courageous battle with cancer. Apparently she had talked to my father about a number of firearms and other items she owned and who she wanted to have them after she was gone. This sword came to me.

As I said earlier, this isn't my focus and I don't know a great deal about Japanese swords. I understand it is a Non Commissioned Officer's sword and that the blade is factory made, not an old family blade that would have been passed down through the generations. If any of you have more information about the markings or history it would be great to hear. Regardless of the details, every time I look at this sword I will think about my mother and what an amazing person she was. Now for the photos:

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My condolences on your loss.
Don't know squat about Japanese swords either, except that even 15 to 20 years ago there were a lot of repro's. Not that I have any real idea one way or the other. Just thinking that blade looks in too new condition to be 70ish years old.
 
Hi myenfield. My condolences as well, it’s a $hitty feeling losing your mom. My mom passed away from cancer just a few months ago, so I know how you feel. They say it gets easier, but it’s still $hitty.

Seems like you know quite a bit about the sword already. I had an officer’s sword about 20 years ago, and I let it go for about $1,000 back then. The furniture was a bit more upscale through, real silk for the tsukamaki (the handle wrap) and real samegawa (shark skin underneath the silk), and there was no serial number stamped on the blade.

If it has sentimental value that makes you think of your mom, then the value of the sword is priceless. Keep it, cherish it and remember your mom whenever you decide to take it out.
 
these sword were produce from 1935 to 1945 they looks like old japanese katana but they are made in a factory with machine and not by a blacksmith with the old tecnique
 
Its odd that It doesn't have a Harmon line. I would have that blade checked out by a expert.

Just from what I know, real Nodatchi, Katana, Wakazashi, tanto, and Naginata will have a Harmon line. The Harmon line is part of the traditional process of making the blade and the Harmon line can't be polished out. Repros will chemically etch in a Harmon line but these can be polished out. Next, there should be real ray skin on the suka. Ray skin is very rough. Its hard to tell from synthetic to real but go walk into a House Of Knives, if you have one, and feel the ray skin on one of the Cas Hanwei they might have on the shelf. Cas Hanwei, as long as its not the Practical Series, use real ray skin. The Cas Hanwei are about the best example of a modern day Katana. They don't make a sword that won't split a human in half. Even the cheapest Practical Series are hand made by one of Paul Chen's up and coming apprentice sword smiths. Cold Steel, as nice as their Katana's are, they're probably the furthest thing from a shinken. In fact, you can't participate in Iaido or Kenjutsu with one. The Suka should also be wrapped in either silk or japanese cotton.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
Its odd that It doesn't have a Harmon line. I would have that blade checked out by a expert.

Just from what I know, real Nodatchi, Katana, Wakazashi, tanto, and Naginata will have a Harmon line. The Harmon line is part of the traditional process of making the blade and the Harmon line can't be polished out. Repros will chemically etch in a Harmon line but these can be polished out. Next, there should be real ray skin on the suka. Ray skin is very rough. Its hard to tell from synthetic to real but go walk into a House Of Knives, if you have one, and feel the ray skin on one of the Cas Hanwei they might have on the shelf. Cas Hanwei, as long as its not the Practical Series, use real ray skin. The Cas Hanwei are about the best example of a modern day Katana. They don't make a sword that won't split a human in half. Even the cheapest Practical Series are hand made by one of Paul Chen's up and coming apprentice sword smiths. Cold Steel, as nice as their Katana's are, they're probably the furthest thing from a shinken. In fact, you can't participate in Iaido or Kenjutsu with one. The Suka should also be wrapped in either silk or japanese cotton.
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Not all Japanese swords will have a prominent hamon, some are barely visible. Granted many do, but it doesn't really matter in this case because this example is not traditionally made. These were stamped out in a factory en masse and possibly hand-finished, but the OP knows this already. I'm sure he is also aware that the samegawa is not real because the tsukamaki is not real. It's clear from the pictures that it's all molded in one piece and then painted to give the appearance but some of the paint is chipped and faded to expose whatever material it was molded from. It may not be made in the traditional method, but it's still a nice find.

Paul Chen's are ok, but I would say a far cry from the best example of modern day katana. Katana are still being made in the traditional way, in Japan, and they start at $10,000:

http://www.budo-aoi.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_73&products_id=101

The term shinken, as I understand it means live blade or real sword. Cold Steel swords are shinken. Paul Chen has several models of shinken. Even a crappy wallhanger from night market can be considered shinken, but none of them are nihonto. Shinken covers wide range of swords of varying quality from the ultra crappy nightmarket specials to genuine blades made in Japan.

Certain dojos will allow students to use shinken. For my school, many students had shinken at one time, but it's just too crowded now to take a chance and most people have switched over to iaito. Shinkens usually only come out on special occasions like new year's practice. Also, iaito are inexpensive compared to shinken so they are generally favoured. We use the word shinken to differentiate between shinai, bokuto, iaito with live/real blades.
 
went out with a girl from utopia near base borden, back in 94. she was a martial arts type, and had a WW2 japanese sword, hamon line, same colour but in rougher shape. sharp as a mofo, and distinctly stained with whatever. arsenal made sword, standard issue japanese army. i remember the stamped numbers, the flaking paint on the scabbard, and the story behind it. she got it from her sensei/instructor who was a WW2 vet(japanese), before he died. it was his and i guess he had no family ( he was from Nagasaki)so he gave it to her on her getting a blackbelt in whatever it was she did. seeing the sword brought back a few good memories is all. condolences on your loss.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
Its odd that It doesn't have a Harmon line. I would have that blade checked out by a expert.

Just from what I know, real Nodatchi, Katana, Wakazashi, tanto, and Naginata will have a Harmon line. The Harmon line is part of the traditional process of making the blade and the Harmon line can't be polished out. Repros will chemically etch in a Harmon line but these can be polished out. Next, there should be real ray skin on the suka. Ray skin is very rough. Its hard to tell from synthetic to real but go walk into a House Of Knives, if you have one, and feel the ray skin on one of the Cas Hanwei they might have on the shelf. Cas Hanwei, as long as its not the Practical Series, use real ray skin. The Cas Hanwei are about the best example of a modern day Katana. They don't make a sword that won't split a human in half. Even the cheapest Practical Series are hand made by one of Paul Chen's up and coming apprentice sword smiths. Cold Steel, as nice as their Katana's are, they're probably the furthest thing from a shinken. In fact, you can't participate in Iaido or Kenjutsu with one. The Suka should also be wrapped in either silk or japanese cotton.
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They mass produced dropped forged blades, those who were lucky enough to have the real thing got to use them and some were unfortunatly cut down(as far as I know just the handle, which in most cases would have had part of the makers signature) to conform to the military standards.
 
There were, to my understanding, 2 general types of sword in use in the IJA - those who possessed a 'family blade' were allowed to re-dress the blade to military standards - new hardware and hangings, and the issue sword, with modern blade, hangings and hardware. I believe some families were allowed to use particular swords without re-dressing, due to historical significance. Needless to say a 'family blade' would be traditional, and some very old while the issue blade would be produced to whatever standard the government saw fit to afford. Nice to see that one without stains, Japanese swords (particularly) and bayonets with stains always put me off a little. The old blades were often tested on criminals.
 
I was aware that the NCO swords had factory produced blades and cast grips. Regarding the authenticity, I very much doubt that this is a reproduction. This is because of where the sword was originally purchased by my mother and the overall appearance and quality of the metal and finish. I have seen many original blades on both swords and bayonets in as good or better condition that were much older, so that is definitely not an indicator of a reproduction. Thanks for the condolences and all the information. I consider myself lucky to have the sword both as a collectible and a reminder of my Mother.
 
myenfield said:
I was aware that the NCO swords had factory produced blades and cast grips. Regarding the authenticity, I very much doubt that this is a reproduction. This is because of where the sword was originally purchased by my mother and the overall appearance and quality of the metal and finish. I have seen many original blades on both swords and bayonets in as good or better condition that were much older, so that is definitely not an indicator of a reproduction. Thanks for the condolences and all the information. I consider myself lucky to have the sword both as a collectible and a reminder of my Mother.
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It's funny, I ordered Conan's Atlantean sword weeks before my mother passed. It arrived the day before. It's a strange way to remember her, but my wife tells me it was a gift from my mother.

I wish I never sold my gunto, but I have a few iaito for class, and a shinken from Tozando for those special occasions to tide me over until I have money for a shinsakuto or really old blade.
 
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