John please don't leave.

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Nobody is crying "leave John alone". By all means, go ahead and slander, insult, or provoke John at your discretion. Just don't get upset if you're treated the same in return. Or do get upset, whatever. It's a public forum. Do as you see fit. Just remember every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You can gripe all you want on CGN, but I'm sure they have a lot of happy customers that don't bother with the forums.
So far the majority of posts in this thread have been positive and supportive.
 
MET said:
I think it is time for CGN and the moderators to put an end to the dealer bashing on here, BAN those who do the bashing, a lot more dealers would be on here! I know of a few who wont touch this site due to what goes on here.

Just sayin...
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+1

These forums should be an open stage for customers and retailers to interact on a one-on-one basis, not a platform for jump-in bashers who have nothing to contribute to the actual incident in question other than their own sour impressions.

So you had a bad experience with Marstar, or Ellwood Epps, or Al Flagherty's, or Gagnon's, or Shooter's Choice, or any other retailer. Let us hear about it. Then let us respond to that incident. Let us explain what happened, why it happened, and what can be done to correct the issue and to make certain it doesn't happen again. That's a dialogue between Customer X and Retailer Y, not an open discussion that needs frivolous input from the Alphabet Soup membership of GunNutz.
 
Tin Foil Hat firmly in place ... It costs NOTHING for gun grabbing trolls or their minions to join this site and dog pile one of Canada's larger gun suppliers and otherwise cause dissent in our community. Low post counts, mostly "personal" opinions with no real firearms knowledge, etc. etc, all point to this type of skullduggery. Trolls and deceivers aside, it never ceases to amaze me how quick legitimate firearms owners are to eat their own. Brutal. Little to no camaraderie, here, other websites, at the ranges where the trap folks fight the IPSC guys who fight the Black powder guys. Bizarre. Where is the "Brothers in Arms" attitude that SHOULD be prevalent and why is it not? What is wrong with so many gun owners?? Head in sand?, selfish?, entitled?, bullies?, etc. etc.

Once in a while we get a wee glimmer of hope and see examples of how firearms owners SHOULD act .. but damn, they are few and far between.
 
waterwheel said:
Why do you suppose Marstar has all these difficulties with clients, and others don't seem to? That's all the client's fault?

I say, don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out. There's too much smoke around these guys for there not to be a fire.
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Mistakes are bound to happen; some that could have been remedied by Marstar, and some outside of their control. They're return/warranty policy is very favourable towards the customers; and rightfully so.
This happens in every business, and it just so happens the other dealers on the site dont leave the threads open for discussion after making contact with the customer. There is just as many "difficulties" with others, but they're not made nearly as public as dealings with Marstar. And when John comes in with his bold typing, in your face replies, it stirs the pot and creates more buzz to LOOK like Marstar has more issues than others.

A lot of people are pretty stupid and come on here to ##### and moan because they havent been catered to within minutes of their email or PM (most of the people that do this havent even gone the most direct route of CALLING to remedy the problem). From there, they decide its time to start a thread about the "poor" service they received without even supplying the proper information for John to look into the problem.
Then to top it off, all the haters come in and take the 1 sided story without hearing the full details; and this is repeated over and over again.

I do see why John is getting tired of it.

As mentioned several times in this thread, had I not been on CGN, I would not have known about Marstar; or any of the other dealers for that matter. CGN is a great tool to reach out to the community and let them know who you are, what you have, and sell your product. I dont doubt they will still do very well if they choose to leave, but those deals (AK74 deal for example) may take a little longer to sell out than if they had posted here.
 
A customer needs/wants goods they pick whom they want to buy from and they order. simple.
If the retailer acts like the "comic book guy" before the transaction is made, I will walk away and go somewhere else. No need to go further lest you set yourself up for more problems.
I am at the age where I do not get too exited if the shipping takes awhile. I don't need anything that bad.
I would get a little irate if the goods where grossly not as advertised or where damaged and had NO RESPONSE back from the retailer. For me, 1 full week of being ignored would be too much.

Remember, everyone works hard for His or Her money and no one wants too feel they have been ripped off. It all boils down to proper communication & patients.
But it is good to be able to have somewhere to go when you have a legitimate complaint after the retailer refuses to give proper service.

WHAT MARSTAR DID OR DIDN'T DO IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS That is between the Customer and Retailer , so I won't comment. But notice how after the customer had complained The Retailer was willing to "fix it" That is a good thing!! and the forum worked!!
 
Harrier .45 said:
+1

These forums should be an open stage for customers and retailers to interact on a one-on-one basis, not a platform for jump-in bashers who have nothing to contribute to the actual incident in question other than their own sour impressions.

So you had a bad experience with Marstar, or Ellwood Epps, or Al Flagherty's, or Gagnon's, or Shooter's Choice, or any other retailer. Let us hear about it. Then let us respond to that incident. Let us explain what happened, why it happened, and what can be done to correct the issue and to make certain it doesn't happen again. That's a dialogue between Customer X and Retailer Y, not an open discussion that needs frivolous input from the Alphabet Soup membership of GunNutz.
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+1 Right on!!
 
Harrier .45 said:
+1

These forums should be an open stage for customers and retailers to interact on a one-on-one basis, not a platform for jump-in bashers who have nothing to contribute to the actual incident in question other than their own sour impressions.

So you had a bad experience with Marstar, or Ellwood Epps, or Al Flagherty's, or Gagnon's, or Shooter's Choice, or any other retailer. Let us hear about it. Then let us respond to that incident. Let us explain what happened, why it happened, and what can be done to correct the issue and to make certain it doesn't happen again. That's a dialogue between Customer X and Retailer Y, not an open discussion that needs frivolous input from the Alphabet Soup membership of GunNutz.
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That's one way to look at it. The other way is that your proposal is nothing other than a militant cowtowing to retailers. No thanks. No reason I shouldn't be allowed to offer my opinion, and if you don't like the fact that I'm offering it, tough.

I suspect the mods here already know more about this than you do - start shutting down open discourse, and there'll very quickly be another forum that doesn't piss off the membership by deleting posts where someone expresses their opinions.
 
waterwheel said:
I suspect the mods here already know more about this than you do - start shutting down open discourse, and there'll very quickly be another forum that doesn't piss off the membership by deleting posts where someone expresses their opinions.
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Why not go start that forum then if you are so unhappy here ? that's just my opinion
 
If he is leaving CGN, Marstar will lose a lot of business. I did not know they existed 3 years ago until I got on CGN. Oh well, retail is hard I know.
 
I've never bought from Marstars, but have heard plenty of good things. Of course pleasing everyone is never going to happen. Whether Marstar is on here or not, people will still say positive or negative things about them. Where Marstar will miss out, is in not being exposed to the new mwmbers of CGN. I think it has almost doubled since I have joined. What will the #'s be in four years?
 
Man now its his fault for ups ? You guys think he has no feelings or what ? Whats wrong with some people always bashing Businesses? Then they will cry when they are gone and they are no longer able to buy from them.

People need to take a break and look at what they are causing its not beneficial to anyone.

Learn from these situations try working with people . The saying goes you get more with shugar than spice.

Funny thing It probably wasn't even the business owners doing but a employee in most cases people just internet bully on the net.
 
If Marstar leaves CGN I think Lever Arms in Vancouver should fill the empty spot. It would be a seamless transition everyone could have the hate on for them as well
 
how could you compare the two ? they are not even close .

thanks john for bringing all those neat toys over the years .

themouser said:
If Marstar leaves CGN I think Lever Arms in Vancouver should fill the empty spot. It would be a seamless transition everyone could have the hate on for them as well
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josey wales said:
Why not go start that forum then if you are so unhappy here ? that's just my opinion
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I did so in another industry. Started a forum against a monstrous competitor. Crushed the competitor, and sold the forum for $200k U.S.. So I actually know what I'm talking about. You, I suspect are just flapping your gums. What's your experience? Posting opinions on forums?

The only advantage this site has right now is it's member base. It's established. There's very little about this site that's unique, and that couldn't be duplicated by me or dozens of other people in about 6 hours and a few hundred dollars. Moving the membership is the problem. That would take a lot of money and time. OR, something as simple as the mods doing the kind of thing that the previous no-nothing suggested of laying heavy on the membership. Mods start laying heavy on the members by deleting posts that offer opinions and I won't need to create a competitor site, there's a dozen others that will do it for me.

And I never said I was unhappy here. THere's a lot of blowhards such as yourself, but the EE is pretty good.
 
I understand Johns "old school ways" I'm one of them. Thanks for all the great sales over the years. I remember spending hours on the Marstar Site.Your a true pioneer for sure. You changed the firearm landscape for life. You brought us things we couldnt have dreamed of getting otherwise. But its a new world with new rules and we have to change or suffer the consequences in this politicaly correct world.
 
Although new to the forum here on CGN, and the low post count dictates this, not new to the whole forum game, serve as a mod on an automotive forum with a member base equal to if not larger than CGN.
One thing for Marstar to consider is the impact that banner ad on the top actually has, especially to the new members who haven't figured out all the other shops. My first purchases came from the shops at the top, and if Marstar had the Norc 226 copy one would be on the way.
One thing that totally doesn't come across in online forums well is emotion, and even mild sarcasm comes across as being not the nicest person. For those who are quick to jump on the bash John bandwagon, look at the comment of those who have met him personally. The tough thing to do is defend yourself without coming across as "that guy". But look at the comments and use them as ability to move foreword.
Understand the desire to leave due to the constant attacks, but don't underestimate the impact of having your site at the top of the page. For those who don't have first hand PERSONAL experience with Marstar who were quick to jump in with your unfounded stories take a look at your actions, like John said, it cost him thousands to keep his site at the top of the page, and if CGN starts to lose that revenue from supporters we all suffer as a whole.
 
A big reason why this site has so many issues. The mods here need to be more active. I would not let any of the bashing happen on the forum that I am currently admin of. Discussion is one thing but 10+ pages of arguing and name calling shouldnt happen. I would have told both parties to take it to PM and locked the thread.
 
Harrier .45 said:
+1

These forums should be an open stage for customers and retailers to interact on a one-on-one basis, not a platform for jump-in bashers who have nothing to contribute to the actual incident in question other than their own sour impressions.

So you had a bad experience with Marstar, or Ellwood Epps, or Al Flagherty's, or Gagnon's, or Shooter's Choice, or any other retailer. Let us hear about it. Then let us respond to that incident. Let us explain what happened, why it happened, and what can be done to correct the issue and to make certain it doesn't happen again. That's a dialogue between Customer X and Retailer Y, not an open discussion that needs frivolous input from the Alphabet Soup membership of GunNutz.
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That is a fair opinion from your side of the retail interaction (are you not an employee of Epps? -one of my favourite outdoor stores to drop in BTW). My only questions are at what point did CGN transition as a forum for gun enthusiasts to openly share to a commercial website with sponsoring retailers the leading priority? Also, what value does CGN have to the sponsors if not for the public audience, generating exposure?

I've seen this on other enthusiast boards (rotary engines in particular), where a transition in interest towards "the hands that feed", actually takes away from membership and in turn the best interest of ALL parties on the board. In the end, other 'public', open-attitude forums were created or popularized, and slowly an exodus occurred. I think that's the last thing that anyone on this board wants, but it's a delicate balance.

At the end of the day, proper moderation of one's own Sponsoring section goes a long way, as proven by many of the other retailers on CGN: 1 courteous response addressing the concerns of the OP, setting up lines of communication, and thread locked. Repeat. A part of what the general members wants from CGN is to see not only what businesses have to offer, but how they treat customers on an ongoing basis, just like people check review websites before booking hotels, or going out for dinner, or someone's feedback on the EE or e-bay. The trick is sifting out the deadbeats and trolls, and not everyone is up to that task.
 
Yukon1911 said:
Sponsors pay quite a bit of money to have a forum on CGN, so if they are paying big bucks and getting only hate, then why be on CGN, rewards need to be commensurate with the costs! Nobody likes hate!
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It's between 2,000 and 6,000 a year depending on what you want. So yah it's allot

Allot of dealers just don't have the time to use gunnutz it's good advertising but many of them go well I'm to busy to check this and that or even post anything because of all the customers. People sometimes think hey if I post here it will get a faster response instead of email or a phone call which tends to be way faster.
 
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