John Wilkes SxS Hammer Gun ( Info & Opinions Please )

REM3200

REM3200

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Hi,

I salvaged this from a co-worker who mentioned he had an old shotgun that he was going to take the hammers off and the firing pins out and hang it over his fireplace ( sacrilege :runaway: ) So, had him bring it by to see and purchased it in short order.

Not knowing much about English shotguns other than what I've been able to garner from web searches any thoughts on this gun and insight on dollar value would be appreciated.

It's a 12 gauge SxS sidelock hammer gun. The barrels are 28" long and marked " John Wilkes. 1 Lower James St. London W. " It's chambered at 2 1/2"

Looks like the Wilkes company is still in business and has made, and continues to make, some very nice and pricey guns. However, I can't find any other hammer guns.

Any help is appreciated.





 
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John Wilkes etc.
FWIW, helped a relative valuate a .470 Wilkes side by side, box lock ejector rifle last year. 15K to 20K USD. It wasn't perfect.
The leather breakdown case was valued at 2,500 pounds sterling.
I believe that any Wilkes is worth big dollars.
Regards,
Maxim08
 
Looks to be a very nice piece, how are the bores? Is the action still tight? Good thing you saved the beautiful firearm from disfiguration!
 
HAHA...I hear ya. Very nice gun Rem. I have no idea on its value but will watch this thread with much interest. Thx for posting it. :)
 
That is a fine looking gun, Rem. You should check the proof marks before you shoot any modern shells in it. I don't think Kent Gamebore sells their black powder shells anymore.
In 1894 John Wilkes formed a patnership with a man named Harris and opened the 1 Lower James St. shop in Soho. At this time he was still working as the shop manager for J.D. Dougall and Sons. The patnership only lasted a year, but any gun made by them would have been marked Wilkes and Harris. After that partnership dissolved the shop remained at that address until 1911 and the guns would be marked John Wilkes. The moved to 31 Gerrard St. at that time. It would be interesting to see a photo of the proof marks since Wilkes probably had a Birmingham factory around the time your gun was made. Many guns were made in Birmingham were proofed in London, but not all. Value I can't help you with. In 2004 the Wilkes brothers, descentants of the man who made your gun, retired, moving the firms operations to the premises of Craig Whitsey (Gunmakers) Ltd Arundel in West Sussex. The company's records are held at the firm's registered offices at 79 Beak Street, Regent Street, London W1R 3LF. Serial numbers reportedly overlap with Dougall numbers, and records of guns below No. 4010 have been lost. What is the serial number of your gun? Perhaps if you contact the Whitsey office they can provide you with more information.
 
When I talked to their Canadian office a few months ago they said they weren't selling them anymore. Apparently the shipping regulations are much more stringent for black than for smokeless powders.
 
Thanks for the info North of 58. I'm not having much luck getting the pics of the barrels markings to come out clearly. On the barrel flats it is marked Nitro Proof 1 1/8.

Three seperate sets of looks like crowns on each flat that have a BP , NP and a RV. Take it the BP is British Proof, the NP is Nitro Proof but no idea what the RV is.

At the back of the barrel flats there is a 13 on the right barrel and a 13 over a 1 on the left.

There is box on both fronts of the flats with a 12 over a C inside. On the left barrel the word choke is in front of that.

The serial number is 53XX.

I'll try to post some pics over the next couple days of the barrel flats .

Thanks,

REM3200
 
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Is it possible that that is a BV rather than a RV? BV under a crown is the Birmingham view mark. All guns proofed at Birmingham should have that. I think the BP under a crown is Birmingham's black powder proof. The NP under a crown is the definitive nitro proof mark since 1904. The 12c is the chamber length, 2 1/2". The 13 and 13 over a 1 is, I think, your original bore diameter. I don't recall what that diameter is, but it is a fairly tight 12 guage. For a barrel to be in proof the bore diameter 9" from the breech must be close to the original bore diameter represented by the 13 and 13/1. I think it must be less than .009" difference. The wall thickness of the barrel 9" from the muzzle has to be at least .020" to be in proof. I'm going by memory here and I might be well off. Perhaps someone who knows more will correct me and post the proper information.
 
My 2 cents worth is that Wilkes gun are of good quailty and being nitro proof you should have good gun
It certianly looks good
 
Nice gun and great save. Get it into the hands of a gunsmith who knows double guns like Les Paul or Nick Makinson. With any older double you'll want to have the chambers and wall thicknesses measured and to see if the gun is on the face and locks up properly.

A lot of these guns have had the chambers lengthened which automatically takes them out of proof. If somewhere along the line the bores had been reamed out to get rid of pitting then the wall thickness may have fallen below minimum and are out of proof.

Pay the money to have a good double man check the gun out and if he gives you the green light then you struck gold.
 
Wilkes

Thanks " North of 58 " that is indeed a BV on the flats and not a RV. There is only two proof marks on the receiver flats and it's the BV on both the right and left side. Appreciate the info on the proof marks and history of the Wilkes guns.

Thanks " Claybuster " and fully agree it would be nice to get the gun to a gunsmith like you've mentioned. Posting here is my first step in the process to identify just what I have.

Regards,

REM3200
 
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