Just got a 1915 No1 MkIII* PICS & questions.

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zeegler

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Hi guys. I just acquired a 1915 No1 MkIII* and I'm kinda overwhelmed with trying to determine what I have and what I should do with it. First things first, here are pics of all the markings I could find on it.

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So to begin, what are the important things I should know about this gun? Is it a parts gun, or is it all or mostly original? The stock has been sporterized, and I think I would like to find a complete stock and restore it to its original configuration if it's worth it. What if anything should I be doing to restore or preserve the metal? I do plan on shooting this gun, so how do I go about making sure it is safe to shoot? The seller said it shoots very well, and I believe him to be a trustworthy guy.
 
The metal is in rough shape, but I have seen worse. One of your main concerns is headspace. Make sure you check it before heading to the range.
 
safehunter said:
Bolt and receiver match. That's nice. There's headspace gauges on the ee. I agree it should be checked before firing. Not bad for over 100 years old.
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Yeah, the serial number on the barrel looks odd though. Is it possible it has been stamped over?

I don't have access to the EE Yet. I submitted my request but never heard back.
 
This one has lots of potential for a restoration. All number matched. It was rebarrelled in 1940 and serial number applied to right side of barrel. The front sight is original with a removal ramp cover. It was a sporterizing thing that the Brit's did to sell these. nice piece. Go for it! Ron
 
rgg_7 said:
This one has lots of potential for a restoration. All number matched. It was rebarrelled in 1940 and serial number applied to right side of barrel. The front sight is original with a removal ramp cover. It was a sporterizing thing that the Brit's did to sell these. nice piece. Go for it! Ron
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Thanks Ron. So are you saying the barrel has not been cut down? The rifling looks pretty decent from what I can see with my barrel light. I just ordered a bore scope so I'll get a much better idea when that arrives.

As far as the cosmetic side goes, is it better to leave the patina as is, or to clean up the metal and re-blue it? I kinda like how it looks as is.

What I mean is, am I going to devalue it by messing with it too much. The again I guess it's not worth that much as is.
 
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Interesting old gun you have there.

It's a BSA manufactured no.1 mk3*. The barrel has been swapped in 1940, as you can see the "40" stamped on the left side of the barrels chamber.

As for headspace, I know some people ALWAYS say "check the headspace" before you fire it and I've read that 100s of times on this form. I say check the whole rifle for anything that would make it unsafe to shoot. Headspace is way down on my list when checking a Lee Enfield especially one with a matching bolt like yours.

Once either you or a knowledgeable person has looked it over then you can check the headspace.

There's several ways to do that. One is buy headspace gauges that you will use once. Second is measure the rim on a full length sized case and make note of it. Then take aluminum tape and measure it, stick pieces on the back of the brass and chamber the round until the bolt wont close all the way. Take the forst measurement and add the deapth of how many pieces of alumium tape youve installed and that is more or less your headspace. Ive done that many times and its never failed me.

If the headspace is sloppy but not rediculous and you decide you still want to fire the old girl then the remedy for that is slide an O-Ring over a factory round til it's tight against the rim. Chamber the round and fire it. The O-RING will take up any slack in the headspace and make the brass fit tight against the bolt face. The round will fire form at the front instead of splitting at the back. I have a Lee with huge headspace and sometimes it will have head separations which are more of a pain then anything as it can be tough to get the broken case out.

When I fire any milsurp that I deem safe to fire after a complete tear down and inspection I always chamber a factory full house round, hold it at my hip about 12" away from touch in me and with the top of the receiver facing away from me. I Fire several rounds and check and see if any of the cases tell me something is going on. I do that on every new to me milsurp matching or not as to be honest I think it's just prudent to do so. If the case ruptures or there's any other issue the gasses expel out and away and with my face so far away it's no biggie. I've test fired more milsurps that I can count and I have encountered a few that passed initial inspection but turned out to have issues that showed up when I looked at the brass.

Nice gun, I hope it give you years of enjoyment. My first was a very similar 1916 Lee Enfield that was sportered very much like that. I still have it and still love to put a few rounds through it every year.
 
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Nicely marked rifle, it has a story to tell.

It went back to the factory at RSAF Enfield for substantial repair twice, once in 1924 and once in 1928 (left wrist). The 1940 barrel could well be a second or third barrel that this rifle wore.

It no doubt served in WWI, was rebuilt inter war period and then used again in WWII enough that it then needed to be rebarreled.
1940, the losses at Dunkirk made for a scramble to produce and put as many serviceable rifles as possible into the hands of troops to fight the enemy and a looming German invasion.. I can see other Enfield parts (EFD) fitted too, which is quite common for a service rifle.

After its long tour (tours) of duty, it was commercially proofed (pre 1954) at the London Proof House (Crown CP, Seaxe, 18.5 tons, 2.22") and surplused out through the British Gun Trade. It also has pre 1968 export (into USA) markings (England).

A great old rifle. Mind boggling to imagine what sight pictures this one has seen.

Disclaimer, don't shoot this rifle unless it has been inspected, measured and weighed by an expert gunsmith specialising in Lee Enfield No.1 rifles, who pronounces the rifle to be in good shooting condition.

OR........., as the bolt is matching to the rifle, out of spec headspace is not likely to be a problem. I myself would be cavalier and shoot the crap out of it and take a look at the spent brass for any signs of problems.
However, it would be irresponsible of me to suggest that you shoot it without a gunsmith check, but I am just saying what I would do.

It is restorable, yes, but right now it is a classic hunting rifle and will do anything that you need to put meat on the table.

It would be a great project to do. Just remember that when restored it will only ever be a parts rifle. Untouched as it came out of service it would be a mix match of parts, sometimes I would call 'itsa-bitza'.
It is not rare by any stretch of the imagination.

Stocking it up is a bit of an art and takes a lot more than just reassembling with a replacement set of wood. Lots of info on the net (not all good) about fitting a stock properly.

It is real easy to spend $500 on a $200 rifle and end up with one worth $400.
 
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OR........., as the bolt is matching to the rifle, out of spec headspace is not likely to be a problem. I myself would be cavalier and shoot the crap out of it and take a look at the spent brass for any signs of problems.
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I would do the same.

In the worst case of over excessive headspace and a case rupture the enfield is well designed to vent gasses away from your face (as long as your right handed)

I did make up some headspace gauges, easy enough to do as the 303 headspaces off the rim.

not much more I can add.
 
rgg_7 said:
This one has lots of potential for a restoration. All number matched. It was rebarrelled in 1940 and serial number applied to right side of barrel. The front sight is original with a removal ramp cover. It was a sporterizing thing that the Brit's did to sell these. nice piece. Go for it! Ron
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Interesting and great for the OP if that's the case, can you post a close up of the front sight zeegler? I'm curious to see the removable ramp.
 
Thanks Tinman & Englishman for the info. It's amazing that you can deduce so much just from the tiny markings on this old rifle. My main concern definitely isn't resale value as I have no plans to sell it. I bought it for myself as a conversation piece/piece of history/occasional shooter. That's why I'm torn about doing any restoration to the metal. I plan on making some coin style headspace gauges out of feeler gauges so I can check the headspace before I commit to firing it. I put a 303 bullet in the muzzle, and it stops about 3/16" before bottoming out on the casing. I'm thinking that's not too bad?
 
zeegler said:
Thanks Tinman & Englishman for the info. It's amazing that you can deduce so much just from the tiny markings on this old rifle. My main concern definitely isn't resale value as I have no plans to sell it. I bought it for myself as a conversation piece/piece of history/occasional shooter. That's why I'm torn about doing any restoration to the metal. I plan on making some coin style headspace gauges out of feeler gauges so I can check the headspace before I commit to firing it. I put a 303 bullet in the muzzle, and it stops about 3/16" before bottoming out on the casing. I'm thinking that's not too bad?
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I used to drop bullets in the muzzle and all that kind of stuff when I started out shooting milsurps. 3/16" could mean a big bore or that could mean the ogive on the bullet is close to the case mouth.

Honestly try shooting it as bore size doesn't always denote potential for accuracy. I have a India pattern no.1 mk3* here with a bore that slugs. 312" or so at the muzzle. The bore is shiney and tight at .312" but the first 6" of rifling is quite worn with rounded off lands. I test fired it at 100 yards last week here and it shot a 3" 5 shot group with old federal ammo that I had laying around. I also through some cast bullets through it and again it did 3" or so.

I also have long magazine Lee enfield mk1 here that slugs at .315" which is pretty large. A standard jacketed bullet drops right into the muzzle . That rifle has done 2-3" at 200 yards on many occasions with some of my hand loads and .311 Sierra bullets.
 
Butcherbill said:
Interesting and great for the OP if that's the case, can you post a close up of the front sight zeegler? I'm curious to see the removable ramp.
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Here's a pic of the front sight. As you can see, the muzzle is pretty badly pitted. It's by far the worst part of the entire gun, and it's fortunately only the outside of the barrel. Kinda looks like someone was using it as a walking stick. I'm not sure I see the point of adding the ramp to the sight.

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I also checked the headspace using some gauges I made from feeler gauges. With a .070 gauge, I can just about close the bolt. I might need a replacement bolt head in the near future, but for now I'm not going to worry about it.
 
I'd remove the metal ramp and replace the front sight block. Very inexpensive and by far the greatest improvement you could make on this rifle. Muzzle area could be cleaned up at the same time and cold blued. Ron
 
rgg_7 said:
I'd remove the metal ramp and replace the front sight block. Very inexpensive and by far the greatest improvement you could make on this rifle. Muzzle area could be cleaned up at the same time and cold blued. Ron
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Sounds like a good start to my restoration.
 
zeegler said:
Sounds like a good start to my restoration.
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I have a sight block with foresight blade you can have for the price of shipping. Excellent condition, compared to yours, it's pristine.

Come to think of it, it came off a 1916 BSA.
 
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