K98 High Turret clone build. Original post updated

jonh172

jonh172

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
243   0   0
Location
NWO
Hi all,

I am finally getting around to building a High turret clone and wanted to share my progress.

The mounts from what I can tell are from Accumounts, I bought them off of the EE IIRC.
Donor rifle is a BYF43 I bought as a stripped barreled action that has 2 holes drilled at the rear right side for a peep sight.
The scope will be a Meopta Artemis 4x ZF39 clone witha 1" tube.
I have finally accumulated all of the parts needed to complete the build and here it is so far.

To start, I noticed a large gap under the front turret, so much so that there was a gap right down to the mount edges leaving an air gap between the mounting screw holes and the receiver.

Mwb1X5j.png


Wanting contact at the mounting holes at the very least, I grabbed some sand paper and went to work

HKxp3dV.png


Progress was slow... this was 20+ mins of work

OxFapoW.png


Going back to it every other day and putting in 5-10 mins at time I eventually got contact at the mounting holes.

9OlF48i.png


Not perfect but much better, I will fill the gap with either silver solder to stay true to the build or maybe just some Devcon.... it is a clone after all.

nbtkN7Q.png


Then came the painstaking task of figuring out how to maintain a parallel between the top of the turret and the base of the receiver then clamp it together to mount it in the drill press.

6qesz9g.png

5J6yEos.png


Having tried many different techniques, this setup was surprisingly solid and held the parallels whiles mounted on a 40 degree angle in the press.

x2DmOGl.png

9OzwkNH.png


Success! Holes drilled and tapped and parallels maintained.

ioFhWb3.jpg

BWvR9yf.jpg

YSTQV1e.jpg

IDiasO1.jpg

CAe6Z1p.jpg


Before I start the task of mounting the rear mount I will collimate the front turret for scope to bore axis parallels.
The scope you see is an old B&L with no internal adjustments I picked up specifically to set up mounts.
I threw a 45acp conversion barrel on just for initial collimating trials but I will have the 8mm barrel on when I do it properly.

yYC7IyT.jpg


In the end the whole thing will get a fresh gunkoting and be in a NOS laminate stock.
More to follow!

UPDATE SEPTEMBER 21, 2019

Well so much for my painstaking (more just painful) efforts lapping the turret to the receiver!!
Preliminary collimation showed the scope pointing way too low!!
With some rough measurements I figured the front turret needed to come up 0.030”.
How I did it and was still able to keep my parallels and screw alignment was I used electrical tape.
At 0.008” thick I used 4 layers for 0.032” rise.

https://i.imgur.com/ejz5ICW.jpg

I placed a deprimed case in the chamber and checked again.
https://i.imgur.com/FMtoQ18.jpg

Perfect!!
The reticle sat right on a spot I center Ed in the primer pocket/bore hole 2kms away.
https://i.imgur.com/wCIcrGn.jpg

Needed to bed the mount I trimmed the tape enough to allow the front, rear and center to be bedded while maintaining height and parallels.

https://i.imgur.com/Nxvh14a.jpg

I roughed up the bottom of the mount to give the Devcon something to bite.
https://i.imgur.com/b4IKA28.jpg

Applied release agent to top of the receiver, mounting holes, screws, mount holes and sides of mount and applied the compound.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5Ctlv.jpg

Mount edges for good measure (wanted good contact here).
https://i.imgur.com/qiKM9VN.jpg

Slowly tightened the screws and cleaned the overflow.
https://i.imgur.com/ArGtDix.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0duXiKV.jpg

Snugged the screws, checked parallels and cleaned up the excess.
https://i.imgur.com/s0Ym2Sl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cQhduaY.jpg

After 6 hours I pulled the mount
https://i.imgur.com/Kx2ytBY.jpg

I filled the voids with more compound and set it up for curing again.

Now I have a nicely colimated front turret I can start on the installation of the rear!

More to come

SMALL UPDATE SEPT 24

Popped the front turret off and it looks great.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/16ZszOn
Slight colour variation and a small chip but easy enough to fix. Cleaned up the holes and it’s now done!

Now for the rear mount.
It wasn’t fitting very well at all. If you pushed it forward it rose up on the hump causing it to tilt but if you kept it far enough back where it was flat it would over hang the bolt cam recess stopping the bolt.

I toyed with the idea of taking the easy route and running a file over the hump because who’s gonna know right??
Removing any excess material off of something this historic to save a Chinese copy didn’t sit right with me.

Being an awkward area to work in the dremel was really my only option.
I chucked up a small cut off wheel and set the speed to 1.
With enough pressure to merely remove the finish I worked the wheel fore and aft as I moved along the hump recess. Once the finish was gone I test fit.
https://i.imgur.com/iTbAxKF.jpg

It wasn’t enough so I used a sharpie to blacken the area and started again
https://i.imgur.com/qcU2648.jpg

It only took 3 runs like this to get a nice snug fit with so little clearance over the hump it looks like it’s touching.

Happy with that I degreased the area on the action and the bottom of the mount, applied release agent to and filled holes with putty and mixed up some more devcon.
I glued the mount in place with scope installed, checked my colimation for windage and elevation and let it set.

Drilling and tapping next.

Update September 29

Devcon to the rescue! The rear mount held on extremely well and I regret not using this method for the front turret but here I am...

I mounted the action in the vise and was able to set it up so the screws would be square to the mount using a small square and magnetic scope leveling level held across the flats on the mounts screw holes.
Tsmf6uL.jpg


Centered the drill in the hole and same as before, center drilled, drilled through to size then started to tap the thread with the tap held in the drill chuck for the first 5 or 6 threads then finished by hand.
AapIOFo.jpg


Did the same to other side and the mounting is complete!
cOOE9sH.jpg

9jQAfRN.jpg


You can see it here with the scope it will carry once complete. Meopta Artemis 4x with no.1 reticle.
AMa6ksA.jpg


Installing the NOS barrel next.
Also need someone to help me find a proper stock! I have semi Kriegsmodell I will trade or sell to fund a non Kriegs.

Mock up.
HpfQDZk.jpg

0M77WfF.jpg
 
Last edited:
Great job. Bringing back and making something cool out of an already bubbafied rifle is always a great idea.
I've always wanted to get some repro mounts and do what you are in the process of doing. Ended up going with Leupold standard mounts instead, as there were holes in the receiver ring that matched. I was also conflicted about the split rings on the turret mounts. It's a big deal and quite limiting to do the solid rings with soldered in scope tube. A side mount would have solved that problem, but than you could be able to see the previously drilled holes in the receiver .....

About the mounts you have, I've read on the web that some don't have the windage adjustment slot of the rear mount cut at a radius so it can pivot on the front mount, but instead they have a straight slot. What are yours like?
I have a spare receiver kicking around, and a 45acp conversion would be awesome for it. Where did you get the parts for yours? I've been eyeing the Rhineland arms kit, but it's on the wrong side of the border.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to the update.
 
Nice work.

That type of base can be difficult to install. Much more tedious than most bases we deal with today.

The smiths that installed the early units had special jigs for the purpose. You had to make do and did it well.

The last set I installed, epoxy was used to hold the bases in place while I drilled and tapped the holes.

Those late war receivers can be a bear to drill and tap. The hard outer surface can easily cause a tap to bind and maybe break. I drilled the hole then, without pulling out the work, switched to the tap in the chuck and very carefully started it by hand to make sure all was true. For me, that's about the only sure way to get it done acceptably.

I'm impressed
 
Last edited:
Volhv said:
Great job. Bringing back and making something cool out of an already bubbafied rifle is always a great idea.
I've always wanted to get some repro mounts and do what you are in the process of doing. Ended up going with Leupold standard mounts instead, as there were holes in the receiver ring that matched. I was also conflicted about the split rings on the turret mounts. It's a big deal and quite limiting to do the solid rings with soldered in scope tube. A side mount would have solved that problem, but than you could be able to see the previously drilled holes in the receiver .....

About the mounts you have, I've read on the web that some don't have the windage adjustment slot of the rear mount cut at a radius so it can pivot on the front mount, but instead they have a straight slot. What are yours like?
I have a spare receiver kicking around, and a 45acp conversion would be awesome for it. Where did you get the parts for yours? I've been eyeing the Rhineland arms kit, but it's on the wrong side of the border.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to the update.
Click to expand...


Thanks Volhv!

I always keep my sniper clones to already bubbad receivers, I did a k98 SSR build and write up using an Israeli k98 in 308 that already had holes drilled in the side rail. The existing holes were covered by the mount so it was perfect.

You can search the thread through my handle but photobucket axed most of my pictures. One day I’ll repost it after uploading the pics to Imgur.

I have a 45acp build done already and I too used the Leupold mounts. I’ll post a pic here later on that.

I didn’t know some of these mounts don’t have the proper angle milled in for the wind age so I will check in that tonight thank you!

I bought 2 Rhineland Arms kits back when you could still get them in without the extra cost involved in today’s imports. Around the same time I had ordered a green mountain barrel from Florida straight to my door.
One 45 kit is complete and shoots awesome and the other I reamed out to 45winmag. I picked up the kit from them to use M1 carbine mags. I have no spare receiver for it so that build is on the back burner.
 
bearhunter said:
Nice work.

That type of base can be difficult to install. Much more tedious than most bases we deal with today.

The smiths that installed the early units had special jigs for the purpose. You had to make do and did it well.

The last set I installed, epoxy was used to hold the bases in place while I drilled and tapped the holes.

Those late war receivers can be a bear to drill and tap. The hard outer surface can easily cause a tap to bind and maybe break. I drilled the hole then, without pulling out the work, switched to the tap in the chuck and very carefully started it by hand to make sure all was true. For me, that's about the only sure way to get it done acceptably.

I'm impressed
Click to expand...

Thanks Bearhunter!

I thought about using epoxy to hold it together but for some reason convinced myself not to. I will be using epoxy to set the rear though. Once I colimate the front turret I’ll epoxy the rear in place then drill. I guess I was worried I was going to knock the front turret off if I had epoxied it when trying to set it up in the drill press at that angle.

To set it up I would lightly clamp a drill bit in the chuck backwards with a slip fit in the mount hole then I adjust the vice until the drill passes in and out of the mount hole with no friction.
I then center drill and then drill the the hole to size.

I did actually use the drill press to start the tap! I tapped while turning the chuck by hand until I could go no more. This was about 3-4 threads in and was plenty to get me started with the hand tap.

You are right about the steel, it is tough and was resistant to the tap. I had used a drill bit about 3 thou under sized so I was nervous to snap the tap but I literally used 1/16th-1/8th turns and backed out and again and again.... It was slow but worked perfect in the end!
 
jonh172 said:
Oh wow!!! Details please!!
Click to expand...

Mounts were made by Robert Spielauer in Austria. He Also wrote:
SCHARFSCHÜTZEN ZIELFERNROHRE UND MONTAGEN 1914-1945
SNIPER SCOPES AND MOUNTS 1914-1945
ISBN 978-3-200-01010-9

Scope is a 4x period Kahles mounted in solid rings by Robert himself.

Not sure if he is still alive. He had many problems.
No links work.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3095

This works.
https://www.eurobuch.com/buch/isbn/9783200010109.html

Yikes, the books are selling for over $400.00!!!
My brother and I both have one each.
 
Last edited:
OP, if you feel it was tedious drilling and tapping those holes with current bits, you don't want to attempt the job with what was available back in the day.

I was given a set of drills and taps from around 1920, from a German Division Armorers kit, along with screwdrivers, scribes etc. I haven't read the books diopter is talking about but I surmise the receivers were either drilled/tapped before they were heat treated or softened before drilling/tapping, then re heat treated. About the only thing the tooling I had was good for was cleaning up threads that had been damaged and the tooling was in as new condition. Metric drills and taps were hard come by back in those days so I used that tooling a lot. The only thing I have left of that stuff is a set of tap handles and a screwdriver with a square wooden handle.
 
Those Robert mounts, I’ve heard of them like mythical creatures except it seems the exaggerations with each telling are actually true!

Beautiful setup you have! Any range reports?

I had foolishly sold a 1920’s Ziess Zielvier not long ago as I had no 26mm mounts. Thinking now I probably could have easily just swapped out the rings...

I’m not ready to try the solid solder on type yet but when I am, I will follow through with a period correct build through and through.
 
bearhunter said:
OP, if you feel it was tedious drilling and tapping those holes with current bits, you don't want to attempt the job with what was available back in the day.

I was given a set of drills and taps from around 1920, from a German Division Armorers kit, along with screwdrivers, scribes etc. I haven't read the books diopter is talking about but I surmise the receivers were either drilled/tapped before they were heat treated or softened before drilling/tapping, then re heat treated. About the only thing the tooling I had was good for was cleaning up threads that had been damaged and the tooling was in as new condition. Metric drills and taps were hard come by back in those days so I used that tooling a lot. The only thing I have left of that stuff is a set of tap handles and a screwdriver with a square wooden handle.
Click to expand...

Haha oh man, ok I will keep my grumbling to a minimum!

And to think they did that under the pressures of war!
 
BTW. Rifle is a byf Mauser, can't remember if it's a 42 or a 43, mounts cover it.

Mounts were installed to rifle by Klaus Hiptmayer of shotgun stock making fame in his Eastman QC workshop. He apprenticed gunsmithing in Austria in his youth.

Since retired.

Range report? Been years since it was last shot. 196gr Hornady with Reloader 15 under an inch at 100yds. Can't remember the charge weight.
 
Last edited:
Volhv said:
.....

About the mounts you have, I've read on the web that some don't have the windage adjustment slot of the rear mount cut at a radius so it can pivot on the front mount, but instead they have a straight slot. What are yours like?
.
Click to expand...

Just confirmed mine has the angled dovetail to allow the the scope to swing :)
 
diopter said:
BTW. Rifle is a byf Mauser, can't remember if it's a 42 or a 43, mounts cover it.

Mounts were installed to rifle by Klaus Hiptmayer of shotgun stock making fame in his Eastman QC workshop. He apprenticed gunsmithing in Austria in his youth.

Since retired.

Range report? Been years since it was last shot. 196gr Hornady with Reloader 15 under an inch at 100yds. Can't remember the charge weight.
Click to expand...

I hope mine is that accurate!

My SSR IN 308 with 147gr LC13 was a consistent inch at 100.
 
I also have a pair of Robert Spielauer's High Turret mounts on a byf44. Definitely the finest repros made
and said to be almost indistinguishable from the originals right down to the machining marks. A very talented machinist.
He doesn't make them anymore, but when he did Sarco in New Jersey sold them in the 90's-early 2000's, and Robert had a website.
There were High Turret, Low Turret, Single and Double Claw, Swept Back, SSR and LSR, etc available. I still might have that Sarco
webpage saved on an old computer.


diopter said:
Mounts were made by Robert Spielauer in Austria. He Also wrote:
SCHARFSCHÜTZEN ZIELFERNROHRE UND MONTAGEN 1914-1945
SNIPER SCOPES AND MOUNTS 1914-1945
ISBN 978-3-200-01010-9

Scope is a 4x period Kahles mounted in solid rings by Robert himself.

Not sure if he is still alive. He had many problems.
No links work.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3095

This works.
https://www.eurobuch.com/buch/isbn/9783200010109.html

Yikes, the books are selling for over $400.00!!!
My brother and I both have one each.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Is the front turret mount a sand casting or sandblasted right from Accumounts? It looks like a rough finish from the pics.

The originals were machined.
 
The outer surface looks cast but the underneath (where I spent countless hours “lapping”) does not give that impression.

I also see no parting lines.

Aside from the rough exterior are there any other tells to be sure?

Not sure their origin as I got them off the EE with no such info.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom