K98 stock crack. Should I be worried?

[Jesus.C]

https://imgur.com/a/LNMFxvY

Just got a nice k98k but the stock has 2 hairline cracks suspciously symmetrical on both side of the stock. Its dosent move but im worried it might be the begging of something worse. On the other hand it dosent show where the trigger mechanism sit. In the the red circle there is 2 laminate layers that are not glue together anymore. Should I use epoxy or wood glue to fix the last one? Thank you for your expertise.

 

[OkayShooter]

Mines split in those spots. I would try and repair them ASAP.

The one between the trigger and mag well. Mines got a pin in it, thru and thru. I epoxyed it. And the 2 cracks on the wrist mine was biscuit cut. Those were done way before I bought it.

 

[Jesus.C]

Mines split in those spots. I would try and repair them ASAP.

The one between the trigger and mag well. Mines got a pin in it, thru and thru. I epoxyed it. And the 2 cracks on the wrist mine was biscuit cut. Those were done way before I bought it.

My biggest worries are thoses to crack runing along the stock. I was planning on fixing the part between the trigger and mag well with epoxy, like yours, but no cross bolt. But your biscuit dont seem to have been done for the same type of crack. I might be wrong.

 

[BlackPowderBurner]

Your stock has some serious bedding issues. Fixing the spots where it has blown out will not solve the problem. You'll need to diagnose and remedy the cause of the splits too.

 

[can14]

Get a new stock

 

[Jesus.C]

Your stock has some serious bedding issues. Fixing the spots where it has blown out will not solve the problem. You'll need to diagnose and remedy the cause of the splits too.

Your not the first one telling me that, what is the usual suspect with those gun? everything seem to sit tight and the cross bolt looks good.

 

[Potashminer]

K98 mauser is designed so that the recoil lug on the receiver transmits recoil to the cross bolt - no where else - then that cross bolt transmits to the wood stock. As the recoil pulse passes along the sides of the magazine on the way to the butt plate, it will want to "bulge out", hence causing splitting between the magazine well and the trigger mortice. If the cross bolt is in punky wood, it will move rearward - allowing the rear tang to act as a wedge and separate the wood right behind the tang. You are showing a laminated stock - all of the above is compounded by the glue holding the laminations is likely letting go. Look at WWI Enfield rifles (Enfields, as in P14 and M1917- not Lee Enfields) - all have a threaded pin passing through the small bulkhead between trigger mortice and magazine mortice - one of several "improvements" that occurred over the 1898 design.

So look right at very rear end of your action tang - should be a couple thicknesses of paper clearance between rear tip of action and the wood. If that has closed up, your cross bolt has set back, or was never fitted correctly to keep the action forward in that inletting.

I just re-read your OP and looked at the pictures - I would be thinking that your trigger guard / magazine is transferring recoil to the stock? As above - it is supposed to happen at the cross bolt - something not correct up there!! I would not be surprised if especially your rear action screw is now bent - it should be straight and should not be touching that metal tube through the stock, either.

 

[Jesus.C]

K98 mauser is designed so that the recoil lug on the receiver transmits recoil to the cross bolt - no where else - then that cross bolt transmits to the wood stock. As the recoil pulse passes along the sides of the magazine on the way to the butt plate, it will want to "bulge out", hence causing splitting between the magazine well and the trigger mortice. If the cross bolt is in punky wood, it will move rearward - allowing the rear tang to act as a wedge and separate the wood right behind the tang. You are showing a laminated stock - all of the above is compounded by the glue holding the laminations is likely letting go. Look at WWI Enfield rifles (Enfields, as in P14 and M1917- not Lee Enfields) - all have a threaded pin passing through the small bulkhead between trigger mortice and magazine mortice - one of several "improvements" that occurred over the 1898 design.

So look right at very rear end of your action tang - should be a couple thicknesses of paper clearance between rear tip of action and the wood. If that has closed up, your cross bolt has set back, or was never fitted correctly to keep the action forward in that inletting.

I just re-read your OP and looked at the pictures - I would be thinking that your trigger guard / magazine is transferring recoil to the stock? As above - it is supposed to happen at the cross bolt - something not correct up there!! I would not be surprised if especially your rear action screw is now bent - it should be straight and should not be touching that metal tube through the stock, either.

Potashminer. First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to help me. Second, ive just uploaded more pictures to the original link. Everything seem correct. The cross bolt look straight and strong, and the rear screw of the action is not bent and go down with ease. Ive spoken with an old timer that know ALOT about mauser. He told me this was a comon issue with laminate stock, and german gunsmith often fix them with stud. Theres a proper way to do this but it seem to him not to be a big deal.

 

[OkayShooter]

The stock could been dried out, or shrunk? I know my Mauser stock dried out alot. Because my action screws bottom out before the trigger guard/action is sandwich together. I had to put shims on the screws. Also noticed on my stock, where the cross bolt is, they put in new wood.

But this thread, going to make me start shimming to lessen the gaps, when I finish pinning it.

 

[Potashminer]

Potashminer. First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to help me. Second, ive just uploaded more pictures to the original link. Everything seem correct. The cross bolt look straight and strong, and the rear screw of the action is not bent and go down with ease. Ive spoken with an old timer that know ALOT about mauser. He told me this was a comon issue with laminate stock, and german gunsmith often fix them with stud. Theres a proper way to do this but it seem to him not to be a big deal.

Sounds like you know someone who can examine it in person and advise. Pure conjecture from me. Was thinking as I was looking at your pictures - I had been stuck on idea of the recoil pulse through the stock causing the cracks - those cracks could also have been caused by dropping or striking the butt stock onto something, while holding or supporting the action or barrel - did not have to be caused by firing - like when a rifle wrist gets broken when a horse or snowmobile rolls on the rifle in a scabbard - nothing to do with firing or bedding, but stock is still cracked or broken.

 

[Potashminer]

The stock could been dried out, or shrunk? I know my Mauser stock dried out alot. Because my action screws bottom out before the trigger guard/action is sandwich together. I had to put shims on the screws. Also noticed on my stock, where the cross bolt is, they put in new wood.

But this thread, going to make me start shimming to lessen the gaps, when I finish pinning it.

If you think that your stock has shrunk to the extent of using shims on the screws - take a look inside - normally, do not want top edge of the magazine to be hitting the underside of the receiver - needs to be an "air gap" - want the spacer tube at rear action screw to be holding the rear of action and the rear of trigger guard apart, not contact between the receiver and the top of magazine. I have several guards that are "bent" - Wood shrunk, someone shortened that rear tube to fit the wood, that allows top edge of mag box to push against underside of receiver - then bent the rear of the trigger guard when tightening up the rear action screw - often then needs some length taken off the top of that action screw because it then protrudes into the cocking piece / sear raceway. Should be able to remove all the metal and re-assemble without the wood stock - lets you see if dimensions are correct - then adjust stock to "fill in the gap".

 

[Jesus.C]

Sounds like you know someone who can examine it in person and advise. Pure conjecture from me. Was thinking as I was looking at your pictures - I had been stuck on idea of the recoil pulse through the stock causing the cracks - those cracks could also have been caused by dropping or striking the butt stock onto something, while holding or supporting the action or barrel - did not have to be caused by firing - like when a rifle wrist gets broken when a horse or snowmobile rolls on the rifle in a scabbard - nothing to do with firing or bedding, but stock is still cracked or broken.

I have a meeting with him this sunday, its a 1h30 drive that ill gladly do considering the value of this gun. Could this be a simple surface crack? This is 1944 stock so the wood is pretty rough and seem dry. Could it be it? Dry wood and recoil?

 

[Potashminer]

I have a meeting with him this sunday, its a 1h30 drive that ill gladly do considering the value of this gun. Could this be a simple surface crack? This is 1944 stock so the wood is pretty rough and seem dry. Could it be it? Dry wood and recoil?

Very best to see what he says about it - he will have it in his hands. Do not make too much of the age. I have a 1926 Remington Model 30 that is displaying odd cracks that I can not explain - due to abuse, I believe, but I do not know. I also have a few mauser rifles made from mid-1890's to before WWI - and those stocks have NO cracks. But I do not own any WWII laminate stocks, so I just do not know about them, or what maintenance they were intended to get. For example, the Lee Enfield wood stocks were to receive regular "feedings" of linseed oil, which they received while in service - but likely most have received nothing since they were surplused in the 1950's...

 

[Jesus.C]

Very best to see what he says about it - he will have it in his hands. Do not make too much of the age. I have a 1926 Remington Model 30 that is displaying odd cracks that I can not explain - due to abuse, I believe, but I do not know. I also have a few mauser rifles made from mid-1890's to before WWI - and those stocks have NO cracks. But I do not own any WWII laminate stocks, so I just do not know about them, or what maintenance they were intended to get. For example, the Lee Enfield wood stocks were to receive regular "feedings" of linseed oil, which they received while in service - but likely most have received nothing since they were surplused in the 1950's...

I would like to see some picture of a that remington. I own a couple enfield, ive heard about the linseed oil but only for restoration. Apparently some people use it to unbend forstock and restore accuracy. But its the first time someone told me the stock regularly needs it. How often?

 

[Potashminer]

I would like to see some picture of a that remington. I own a couple enfield, ive heard about the linseed oil but only for restoration. Apparently some people use it to unbend forstock and restore accuracy. But its the first time someone told me the stock regularly needs it. How often?

I had read that the British Army issued linseed oil monthly - solders were to rub in a few drops by hand to exterior of the stock. When new, and during periodic overhauls or inspections, the wood stocks were dunked / soaked in warm linseed oil, and then hung to "drip dry"... My one and only "restoration" attempt on a No. 4 was with a set of British beech NOS stocks from eBay - I soaked them for 3 or 4 days in 50 / 50 mix of turpentine and boiled linseed oil. Wiped off and hung for at least a week - oil has now started to get darker in that wood - 4 or 5 years later.

 

[Potashminer]

Remington Model 30 stock with cracks - as you may know, Rem 30 was made up of left over M1917 parts that Remington had at end of WWI - mountains of them. This example was a really poor choice of grain for a rifle stock - can see the various splits - looks like an old crack / break that pretty much separated the butt stock at the wrist.

In first picture, can also see crack going forward from bolt handle recess - right through that stock cross reinforce pin, as well as old break going to rear.



This crack on top left side seems unrelated to the major break - perhaps caused by same event though?



Continuation of the old repaired break around the left side of the wrist of the stock

 

[Jesus.C]

Remington Model 30 stock with cracks - as you may know, Rem 30 was made up of left over M1917 parts that Remington had at end of WWI - mountains of them. This example was a really poor choice of grain for a rifle stock - can see the various splits - looks like an old crack / break that pretty much separated the butt stock at the wrist.

In first picture, can also see crack going forward from bolt handle recess - right through that stock cross reinforce pin, as well as old break going to rear.

View attachment 465933

This crack on top left side seems unrelated to the major break - perhaps caused by same event though?

View attachment 465934

Continuation of the old repaired break around the left side of the wrist of the stock

View attachment 465937

Very interesting. Did you repair the stock yourself? Or was done many years ago. Have you personaly fire this weapon much. Did you notice any progression in the crack ever since?

 

[Potashminer]

Very interesting. Did you repair the stock yourself? Or was done many years ago. Have you personaly fire this weapon much. Did you notice any progression in the crack ever since?

The repairs that you can see were done many years ago, I presume, before I received it. What I had received was that stock and a Rem 30 barrel with the 1926 date on it. The stock shape and contour seems correct for a 1926 Rem 30 - there were several changes made over the time of the production run. I bought a BSA Sporter conversion of an M1917, because I wanted this one to have a receiver sight, and the BSA converted receiver is already milled off, and drilled and tapped for a Lyman #57 SME sight. Turned out to be just a straight forward unscrew the barrel from the BSA action and screw on the Rem 30 barrel. I did do a number of stock repairs - not shown - down from the top edge - in total three threaded brass stock repair pins set in epoxy - in an attempt to hold those various splits. The rifle has since been re-assembled, but not yet fired. There is a chunk missing from the recoil shoulder in that stock that needs to be filled and re-formed with epoxy, before it is fired. The military floor plate "goose neck tongue" was also cut off and re-welded to be straight, to match the stock, which required re-shaping the military magazine box, etc.