k98
- Thread starter PeterPan
- Start date
pre-war and early war will have better metal finish but may have walnut stocks and no provision for a sight hood. Late war will be rougher finished and will probably have a laminate stock. It's your preference.
If you are just looking for an 8mm mauser, the Yugo's are pretty nice and in nearly new condition. I like the elm stocked 24/47's myself.
If you are just looking for an 8mm mauser, the Yugo's are pretty nice and in nearly new condition. I like the elm stocked 24/47's myself.
OK,
what about factory. I know that .P. Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, from Suhl was known and is still known for quality rifles or it really doesn't mather?
I am sorry for asking maybe silly question, but I do not know what is sight hood?
Thanks
what about factory. I know that .P. Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, from Suhl was known and is still known for quality rifles or it really doesn't mather?
I am sorry for asking maybe silly question, but I do not know what is sight hood?
Thanks
PeterPan said:
I don't think there is a huge quality difference between the different manufacturers but I could be wrong on that. They all had to be made to the same QC (until war got in full swing) or they would be rejected.
Front sight hood just slides on some grooves on the front sight base, look on the end of my barrel, early K98's will just have the post and no provision to mount the site hood. I just remember a post on here where a guuy bought a RC and was a little dissapointed it didn't come with a hood
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
From a shooting rather than collector's perspective:
My wife's godfather (a mil-surp collector) suggested Oberndorf am Neckar, Erfurt Machinefabrik (ERMA) or Steyr in any order for manufacturer. In order of production: prewar, wartime before 1942, wartime after 1942. He says the very late rifles are very rough with bluing that doesn't hold up.
He sent me some nice photos last night of his K98A (Erfurt 1916), Siamese Mauser (a rarity I understand) and Israeli Mausers.
I went with a 41 ERMA. Has the machined floorplate/trigger guard and all machined barrel bands, no pinged Swastikas. Laminate stock with the flat buttplate. I picked it up from Jean at PS Militaria.
This rifle just came in the other day. Impressions? The shellac finish on the stock is aweful and it will have to be refinished. The serial of the receiver is stamped into the stock - I will try to raise it out with steaming when I refinish the stock. There is also finish (Russian paint?) coming off the bolt which I have disassembled and will give a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner today. Electropenciling is all over the various bolt parts and also the trigger guard. I think I will try to steel wool it off and try my hand at rust bluing all of the bolt components. If that turns out well, I'll probably just go ahead and reblue the entire rifle.
Anyhow, I knew all this going in. A RC for me is a fun restoration project. The bore on this rifle is damned good which is the most important consideration.
Also budget for: capture screws, front sight hood, cleaning rod, sling, bayonet. If you want all this stuff cheaper and easier, just get a Yugo from somebody like Marstar offering the complete package. Myself, I wanted a fixxer upper - its like the difference between building and buying a completed hot rod.
My wife's godfather (a mil-surp collector) suggested Oberndorf am Neckar, Erfurt Machinefabrik (ERMA) or Steyr in any order for manufacturer. In order of production: prewar, wartime before 1942, wartime after 1942. He says the very late rifles are very rough with bluing that doesn't hold up.
He sent me some nice photos last night of his K98A (Erfurt 1916), Siamese Mauser (a rarity I understand) and Israeli Mausers.
I went with a 41 ERMA. Has the machined floorplate/trigger guard and all machined barrel bands, no pinged Swastikas. Laminate stock with the flat buttplate. I picked it up from Jean at PS Militaria.
This rifle just came in the other day. Impressions? The shellac finish on the stock is aweful and it will have to be refinished. The serial of the receiver is stamped into the stock - I will try to raise it out with steaming when I refinish the stock. There is also finish (Russian paint?) coming off the bolt which I have disassembled and will give a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner today. Electropenciling is all over the various bolt parts and also the trigger guard. I think I will try to steel wool it off and try my hand at rust bluing all of the bolt components. If that turns out well, I'll probably just go ahead and reblue the entire rifle.
Anyhow, I knew all this going in. A RC for me is a fun restoration project. The bore on this rifle is damned good which is the most important consideration.
Also budget for: capture screws, front sight hood, cleaning rod, sling, bayonet. If you want all this stuff cheaper and easier, just get a Yugo from somebody like Marstar offering the complete package. Myself, I wanted a fixxer upper - its like the difference between building and buying a completed hot rod.
PeterPan said:
In my opinion, 1939 K98's (JP Sauer and Oberndorf) are the best of the war (slightly pre-war) years, but be careful ........ very careful...........
This particular genre are so loaded with fakes and repros, you need a very sharp eye to ensure you aren't getting taken. I always run any purchase of a wartime or earlier k98k through a number of members on here, as well as send lots of pics and details off to a few recognized expert collectors in the U.S. If I'm buying post war rebuilds and captures, I don't bother as they've been altered anyway during the refurbish process.
Your looking for an early piece, so here's a link to one of Milsurp Knowledge Library - German Sectionhttp://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15 "righteous" K98k's that's perfect and all correct.
1939 147 JP Sauer K98k manufactured by JP SAUER und SOHN GEWEHRFABRIK, SUHL
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
1939 147 JP Sauer K98k (lots more more pics ... click here)
Notice the detailed match of the components and particularly the fonts used. This was an early 1939 rifle, so there was a lot of attention spent on details and parts marking. The later years, ie: byf 1944 were less marked, but there's a great Collector Grade Publications book, called "Backbone of the Wehrmacht (The German K98k Rifle, 1934 - 1945) by Richard D Law", which shows what should be marked and with what WaA numbers on all individual components for each manufacturer and by individual year.
It was interesting with this particular rifle, as I had another member here who had bought a 1939 147 JP Sauer K98k, but it was a post war East German rebuild. I gave him the link above to my all original 147 JP Sauer and he compared the markings. He found a lot of parts had been changed, substituted or buffed during the rebuild process.
If you find something you want to buy and if you provide pics, I'm sure a lot of folks here would be happy to help you out with feedback.
Hope this helps.....
Regards,
Badger
Last edited:
I used to have a post war East german 1939 147 K98. It was a nice gun, but the parts had mostly been scrubbed and renumbered. Nonetheless, it was a fine rifle, and the reworking had been done very nicely, and I still regret selling it. I wonder if it's the same one Badgerdog speaks of...In any case, I wouldn't hesitate to go with another rework, be it Russian, East German, or whatever. IMHO, it just adds more history to an already very historical gun. In fact, at the prices RC's are going for, I would almost prefer one, with my limited budget, and the "value added" of knowing that any RC was picked up off a battlefield, and didn't spend the war guarding the bakery...
PeterPan said:
Are you talking about Yugo refurbed K98's or Yugo manufactured mausers like M48's, 24's, etc?
Yugo refurbed K98's are among the least 'intrusive' refurbs appearance-wise, besides East German refurbed K98's. They didn't shellac stocks, though they stamped them with a new serial. A lot of parts are original on them with the exception of parts that needed to be replaced due to wearing out. Waffens and eagles are sometimes scrubbed, sometimes not. The only downside is often they would often scrub the manufacturer marks (byf, bnz, etc) off the reciever and add a Yugo crest on there. My Dot44 still has the German marks.
If you are looking for a K98 that is closer to issue appearance, Yugo refurbs are a great way to go.
Last edited:
ollie said:
This is not entirely true. THe Russians and other Allies also captured stores ofunissued or rear troop rifles as well, which were divied up amongst the victors as reparations and for rearmament. It's just as likley that a Russian capture has never fired a shot in anger as any other captured rifle.
On another note, I also own an East German refurn, and I must agree that it is a real beauty. It's a BCD 1943, and as usual it was reblued/rebarreled etc by the East German police. But it is the nicest of all of the forms of refurbs I've come accross. The force matching is all nicely stamped, rather than half drunken russian electro-scribble, and the stock is absolutly pristine, no ugly amber shelack ever made it's way intp the East German refurb factories.
My Russian capture on the otherhand is a prewar version which I bought to contrast my mid-late war '43. It is also in beautiful condition. The main difference being that the blueing is matte russian, and the stock was buggered by ba drunk with a sandblaster.
But for the money you save on an RC you could feasibly grab a prettier stock set and end up with a beutiful representational rifle.
Soon this baby will be wearing a nice new correct factory/period stock set. THen it'll rival it's younger cousin (above) in beauty.
As for factory preference, check here:
http://cagedlion.com/Mapstudypg1.htm
Find something that tickles you. My first K98 was a Gustloff (BCD) and after reading up on the history I'm hooked and keep an eye out first for Gustloff lineage rifles (BsW, 337, BCD)
http://cagedlion.com/Mapstudypg1.htm
Find something that tickles you. My first K98 was a Gustloff (BCD) and after reading up on the history I'm hooked and keep an eye out first for Gustloff lineage rifles (BsW, 337, BCD)
The Rc rifles are a great value you have a chance to buy rare make rifles that normally you would never find
I got a s147 1936 prewar with the imperial eagles no nazi markings (none were on this year)
and a very late dou 45
both rifles are in very nice conditiong both bores look as new and both shoot very well
I got a s147 1936 prewar with the imperial eagles no nazi markings (none were on this year)
and a very late dou 45
both rifles are in very nice conditiong both bores look as new and both shoot very well
I think I will go with M48.
I want rifle which will shoot and I am not a collector.
From what I gather, they are very well made, only problem is shorter receiver, but I am not going to build a rifle based on that receiver.
Thanks for comments
I want rifle which will shoot and I am not a collector.
From what I gather, they are very well made, only problem is shorter receiver, but I am not going to build a rifle based on that receiver.
Thanks for comments
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I can't really comment from my own experience but my collector adviser says the steel isn't anywhere near as strong as in the German rifles and that they didn't apply any chromium in the bore. Or is that only in the Yugo SKS rifles?
Many of the Yugos look like good clean shooters. Just a stupid observation but I can't get over the funny looking handguards on the Yugos.
Many of the Yugos look like good clean shooters. Just a stupid observation but I can't get over the funny looking handguards on the Yugos.
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Well I understand they didn't use chromium because Yugoslavia has no chromium reserves. No chromium = much less resistance to corrosive ammo, which they all fired back in the day. The weak steel comment, well it could just be collector snobbery, though this guy really knows his stuff and has an enviable collection of prohibited 12(everything you can imagine).
I posted some photos of my RC HERE. Its a nice gun but as you can see, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time restoring it. No such hassle with a Yugo
I posted some photos of my RC HERE. Its a nice gun but as you can see, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time restoring it. No such hassle with a Yugo
Not a bad looking little rifle Mike.
What will your complete restoration entail?
I dont have it where I am now, but I'm almost certain that I hav a couple of WaA280 marked small parts (not electro penciled to match) on my RC K98k, they'd look awfully correct on that ERMA
If you're interested I'll check when i get home after the weekend and we can swap a couple small parts to get your rifle closer to correct. If you dont mind, see if any of your small parts are marked WaA1 or 4, I could use such pieces.
What will your complete restoration entail?
I dont have it where I am now, but I'm almost certain that I hav a couple of WaA280 marked small parts (not electro penciled to match) on my RC K98k, they'd look awfully correct on that ERMA
If you're interested I'll check when i get home after the weekend and we can swap a couple small parts to get your rifle closer to correct. If you dont mind, see if any of your small parts are marked WaA1 or 4, I could use such pieces.
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I sent you a PM Skippy.
Restoration will entail stock (removal of shellac, steaming out dents/numbers, refinish in BLO/Beeswax), rust blueing of any parts with that &*%$ electropenciling, anything else that comes to mind (floating/bedding?). Add capture screws, sling, cleaning rod, front sight hood, any other parts I deem too far gone though the bolt parts all look good. Later on, I might add an after market trigger. I may rust blue the barrel and receiver - I haven't decided yet. I guess I'll see how it matches with the bolt rust blued.
The bore is quite excellent on this rifle. I have a 8mm Mauser no-go gauge in the mail as part of the safety check. Some good safety checks are HERE. Unfortunately the author passed away so he doesn't present part II as promised. I am thinking about making a webpage detailing the whole job - something to get more people shooting RCs.
Restoration will entail stock (removal of shellac, steaming out dents/numbers, refinish in BLO/Beeswax), rust blueing of any parts with that &*%$ electropenciling, anything else that comes to mind (floating/bedding?). Add capture screws, sling, cleaning rod, front sight hood, any other parts I deem too far gone though the bolt parts all look good. Later on, I might add an after market trigger. I may rust blue the barrel and receiver - I haven't decided yet. I guess I'll see how it matches with the bolt rust blued.
The bore is quite excellent on this rifle. I have a 8mm Mauser no-go gauge in the mail as part of the safety check. Some good safety checks are HERE. Unfortunately the author passed away so he doesn't present part II as promised. I am thinking about making a webpage detailing the whole job - something to get more people shooting RCs.
