K98k Mauser marking help - MORE pictures and target!!

[ArtyMan]

Hey guys,

There is a marking on my German K98 that I have always wondered about, and can't seem to find any information for. I have been told that the "h" marking indicated heer, or army. I have also been told that that it dosnt mean anything! Any help would be appreciated. The rifle is a 1943, ar code Russian capture Mauser.

The "h" marking, on the left side of the reciever, below the serial number, and to the right of the swastika

Thanks

 

[joe n]

Simply a suffix, part of the serial number. Very nice rifle btw
The "H" that woud denote "Heer" or Army use would be stamped on the side of the stock, not on the receiver.

 

[ArtyMan]

Excellent, thanks!

 

[ArtyMan]

From what I can see, my stock only has one marking remaining, aside from the serial number, and it LOOKS like "MK-1", and thats under the sling, on the butt. Any idea if this means anything

 

[joe n]

I've seen this marking before, and I just cannot exactly recall what it means, but it was typically found on a Yugo or Czech stock, postwar of course. Hope this helps

From what I can see, my stock only has one marking remaining, aside from the serial number, and it LOOKS like "MK-1", and thats under the sling, on the butt. Any idea if this means anything

 

[Nabs]

The service mark should be located on the right side of the butt stock, muzzle forward, just behind the bolt take down disc but since your stock doesn't have one (and it should for a Kar98k), I going to guess it is not a German stock ? The "X" on the left receiver was done by the Russians and I believe it was done to indicate a captured, re-furbished, and re-issued weapon. The "h" on the left side of the receiver is the suffix and is part of the serial number. From my reference for codes, the "ar" indicates production at the Mauser plant at Borsigwalde, located in the northern sector of Berlin. This particular code was in use from 1941 to 1944.

Looks like a very nice rifle from the side shot, how does she shoot ?

 

[ArtyMan]

Shoots great, one of my most accurate rifles. I originally figured a post war stock or something of the sort, but the stock serial number matches the rifle, which matches the butt plate. Everything matches except the bolt and safety (of course!). I have also seen a few pictures of war time Kreigsmarine sailors carrying K98s with stocks and no disc, but seeing as how mine is an RC, would that make sense?

 

[ArtyMan]

Found this on another website, talking about a Kriegsmodell K98, basically saying the Germans stopped using certain features to cut down production time and costs.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/uniforms_firearms/firearms/98k/k98index.htm
When I googled it I found a few images of K98s with no stock disc, and the large, thick buttplate

"Another example of the changes made to the K98 late in the war is the introduction of the Kriegsmodell K98. The Kriegsmodell K98 is basically the most simplified version of the K98. Several design changes were made to produce the Kriegsmodell. Several items were completely eliminated, such as: bayonet lug, cleaning rod, bolt disassembly disk, bolt guide, barrel band spring, and even the locking screws for the floor plate. Kriegsmodell K98s are usually late 1944 or 1945 production. They will usually have very rough machined parts, and stocks will be rough and usually unfinished."

Why would my rifle, being made in 43 have some Kriegsmodell features? I know RCs are mix matched rifles, but the stock matches the rifle, the buttplate and the barell bands.

Some pictures, about midway through the page you can see a stock with no disc and same buttplate.
http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/gknen.html

 

[Nabs]

Its possible. Judging by the suffix, I am going to guess your Kar98k was manufactured either during late spring or early summer, 1943. Take a look at the cupped butt plate, is there a hole on either the left or right side near the bottom ?

Also, have a look at the right side of your butt stock for any German acceptance stamps (usually in stamped in black ink). If they are there, they should be quite visible unless the stock has been sanded down.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Is there any Electropencil serial numbers on your rifle?

Is the finish a black color or more of a blue?

 

[ArtyMan]

There is a hole on either side on the buttplate,and tehre are some very faint markings on the right side of the stock.

There is one electropenciled number on the bolt, its the number of the rifle/stock, I was told this is typical of Russian captures. How do I tell if the rifle has a blued or black finish?

 

[Nabs]

There you go, the bolt take down disc was never installed but supplmented with the take down hole in the side of the butt plate. The electropenciling is normal with Russian captures as the rifles were either rebuilt with whatever parts were on hand and electro penciled afterwards to "match" or they were simply electro penciled without being taken apart. To find a RC that is almost all matching is quite a find indeed.

As for the black paint or blued finish, you can usually tell the black paint right away because of the glossy finish (part of the shellac varnish finish that was applied to many Russian captured Kar98ks). I had the paint on my recoil lug as well as on the bolt take down disc and it was flaking off so I removed it with the help of a 0000 steel wool and now both parts are in their original white finish.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

There is a hole on either side on the buttplate,and tehre are some very faint markings on the right side of the stock.

There is one electropenciled number on the bolt, its the number of the rifle/stock, I was told this is typical of Russian captures. How do I tell if the rifle has a blued or black finish?

Post more pics, it might not be RC, maybe Vopo or something else.

The X has a serif, or hat on the top and bottom of each line of the X.
(Look at the X on your rifle)

Most RC's are just a plain X, yours is not.
It could be a Depot 10 (Depot X; X is 10 for Roman Numerals) Rebuild during the war.

Post more pics if you can.

 

[ArtyMan]

Thanks a lot for the great info! You have told me more in the past few posts then I have found by looking online since I got it last fall. Is there any way to tell where/when it was issued and/or possibly used? I know with my Mosins its basically impossible as the Russians didnt keep very good records during the war, but with the Germans is there any info out there? Is tehre any way to find any information about the Berlin Borsigwalde factory? a search didnt turn up much
Thanks a lot!

 

[ArtyMan]

pics incoming

 

[Nabs]

I haven't find a good source of information but I think unit information wasn't stamped on the rifles as it was on the late 19th, early 20th century Mausers. Some Kar98ks will have some sort of mark on them that you can link but from my experience, I haven't seen any conclusive. That doesn't mean such information doesn't exist but I think many of these records were destroyed in the post war occupation years by the Allies and Soviets. A notable example would be the French occupiers of the Mauser factory at Oberndorf that destroyed all the records for serial numbers and production dates making it very difficult for collectors like us now to back track our Mausers.

 

[ArtyMan]

Here are some more pictures. The numbers with the red over them all match,and are the serial number of the stock, buttplate,floorplate, bolt (EP), reciever and nosecap.

Here is the bolt handle, it has thefirst two numbers on it, and they are not EP'd (69)

safety - dosnt match

stock

buttplate

 

[ArtyMan]

And some targets from todays shoot. 220gr bullet (way to heavy) with 42.5gr of Winchester 760. 3 shot group, the low shot was the first of the day (cold bore?)

 

[Nabs]

Very nice. Looks like the trigger guard came off a damaged rifle and was salvaged and re-used for this one (as noted by the "X'ed" out serial number). Interesting how the serial number stamp on the butt stock is so clear, almost like it was stamped yesterday, very interesting.

Nice shooting too, what distance was that at ?

 

[ArtyMan]

It look A LOT of solvent and oil/patches/scrubbing to clean the buttplate up! The distance was 50m, the 100m target was excellent, about an inch and a half ish group, but the rain stopped me from getting it, I kinda regret that now