Kaboom Yesterday at the Gun Club
- Thread starter Camp Cook
- Start date
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Wait a minute here, the cartridge blew down the mag well as well? 10mm has a supported chamber dosen't it? For it to blow down the mag well, wouldn't the round need to have fired out of battery? And you'd only get heavier recoil if the chamber held together. Blown as it did, your pressure vented up and down. I'm curious to hear what gunnar thinks happened....keep us posted. My nickel is still on a double load or better. How do you reload, progressive? (I'm not saying your careless, I'm saying that once in a blue moon acidents can happen.)
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I can't say I shot a double charge , but...
At a shoot I was handed a cartridge ( .45acp) that looked like mine ( same shape lead bullet ) after I shot . So " thanks " I say's , and into my bag it went . What I didn't think about ( new shooter ) was that one competitor was shooting a .45acp open gun . Needless to say that round was probably his because talk about recoil when that one let off !
The gun was fine , it just had a lot of recoil . I think this is because all went according to plan ( the pressure was within the limits of my gun ) .
I have also had a few where the bullets were driven into the case when the gun cycled . every time this happened they failed to feed correctly and the gun jammed up . These bullets were shorter oal than what I normally used for this gun ( they were for another gun that liked them , but I sold ) .
Everyone that has read this post know's very little about this failure . But many people feel they know what happened , some IMO are correct . All we know for sure is that the ignited charge created more pressure that the surrounding components could contain . It could have been due to a few different problems and or a combination of problems .
In my fairly short time shooting autoloaders I've learned a few lessons .
Don't take unknown rounds , if you do , pull them and burn the powder .
When you find a load that works , stick with it .
If you load your own , get used to seeing how much powder is in the case , a light fluffy powder does make this easier to see .
glad to hear you were not hurt .
At a shoot I was handed a cartridge ( .45acp) that looked like mine ( same shape lead bullet ) after I shot . So " thanks " I say's , and into my bag it went . What I didn't think about ( new shooter ) was that one competitor was shooting a .45acp open gun . Needless to say that round was probably his because talk about recoil when that one let off !
The gun was fine , it just had a lot of recoil . I think this is because all went according to plan ( the pressure was within the limits of my gun ) .
I have also had a few where the bullets were driven into the case when the gun cycled . every time this happened they failed to feed correctly and the gun jammed up . These bullets were shorter oal than what I normally used for this gun ( they were for another gun that liked them , but I sold ) .
Everyone that has read this post know's very little about this failure . But many people feel they know what happened , some IMO are correct . All we know for sure is that the ignited charge created more pressure that the surrounding components could contain . It could have been due to a few different problems and or a combination of problems .
In my fairly short time shooting autoloaders I've learned a few lessons .
Don't take unknown rounds , if you do , pull them and burn the powder .
When you find a load that works , stick with it .
If you load your own , get used to seeing how much powder is in the case , a light fluffy powder does make this easier to see .
glad to hear you were not hurt .
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Camp Cook said:
Anything happen the last shot BEFORE the chamber blew? Anything that might have been unusual?
Wondering if the chamber blew because the slide did not cycle.......
Possible or am I out to lunch?
Colt go boom.
That is a catastrophic failure. I have had a 1911 45 let go but not as extreme. In my instance the case head separated. Probably I overcharged the cartridge. That is the fault of the reloader.....me. As you probably know the original 1911 design does not a have a fully supported chamber. As a result the magaxine was partially blown out of the gun and the grips splintered in my hand, no injury to them but I did end up with powder burns on my right hand and brass particles caused some bleeding on my face. The magazine was partially blown out of the gun and destroyed in the process. You are extremely lucky...and we are all very thankful...for that.
That is a catastrophic failure. I have had a 1911 45 let go but not as extreme. In my instance the case head separated. Probably I overcharged the cartridge. That is the fault of the reloader.....me. As you probably know the original 1911 design does not a have a fully supported chamber. As a result the magaxine was partially blown out of the gun and the grips splintered in my hand, no injury to them but I did end up with powder burns on my right hand and brass particles caused some bleeding on my face. The magazine was partially blown out of the gun and destroyed in the process. You are extremely lucky...and we are all very thankful...for that.
- Location
- Middle of the gap
Excuse the noob,but do you load and reload your mags with the same ammo
before you shoot it? a little too much thumb pressure, (bullet set)?? I think thats what its called
correct me if I'm wrong
Glad that all that was hurt was your pride
that was a good sized hunk of schrapnel moving quickly
before you shoot it? a little too much thumb pressure, (bullet set)?? I think thats what its called
correct me if I'm wrong
Glad that all that was hurt was your pride
that was a good sized hunk of schrapnel moving quickly
- Location
- Minot North Dakota & Las Vegas NV
This is why you always wear eye protection when shooting! Good thing you werent seriously hurt! Your gun is repairable, you on the other hand may not be in some situations. Hope it doesn't cause you to flinch
What is interesting to me (as a metallurgist), witout being able to see the gun is the appearance of the fracture faces.
Normally when steel fails it stretches until it reaches it breaking point, when a crack starts it propagates through the material but if you put the two halves back together you can see the deformation of the material clearly. The fracture faces are distinctive looking like those in the left side of the barrel above (as you look from the breech).
The second case is a fatigue fracture. A crack has been growing until it reaches the point where the remaining material can no longer support the load. A 13 year old barrel would have had a fair few cycles to run through. This would show some 'tide marks' where the fracture grew slowly every time it was stressed. Can we have a better picture of the fracture faces please?? Especially near the ejector.
Interesting the crack appears to have started near the ejector - a sharp corner is typically where a crack will start as stresses are multipled around a sharp corner.
Given what I can see on the pictures I would say over-pressure due the the appearance of the fracture faces (what I can see clearly) and the presence of the barrel bulge. A closer examination of the fracture faces is needed to tell for sure.
Normally when steel fails it stretches until it reaches it breaking point, when a crack starts it propagates through the material but if you put the two halves back together you can see the deformation of the material clearly. The fracture faces are distinctive looking like those in the left side of the barrel above (as you look from the breech).
The second case is a fatigue fracture. A crack has been growing until it reaches the point where the remaining material can no longer support the load. A 13 year old barrel would have had a fair few cycles to run through. This would show some 'tide marks' where the fracture grew slowly every time it was stressed. Can we have a better picture of the fracture faces please?? Especially near the ejector.
Interesting the crack appears to have started near the ejector - a sharp corner is typically where a crack will start as stresses are multipled around a sharp corner.
Given what I can see on the pictures I would say over-pressure due the the appearance of the fracture faces (what I can see clearly) and the presence of the barrel bulge. A closer examination of the fracture faces is needed to tell for sure.
I want to thank every one again for their concerns for my health, even the largest cut on my cheek is almost healed over already....
I'll get some more photo's off to Gibbs505 to post as soon as I get a chance to take them and he has the time to post them.
I always leave my 1911 mag's empty for storage and load them again when I get to the range. If I am heading out into the bush I load the mag's before I leave the house.
I have been loading for dozens of different firearms over the last 27 years with this being the first dangerous problem that I have ever encountered be it the firearm or my reloads. So for those that are concerned that I may have developed a flinch... I'll have to say that I have most definately not.
Gibbs505 I am doing fine... I was out Saturday with my wife and dog's prospecting. I carried my Glock 20 10mm and she had my T/C Contender carbine chambered in a wildcat called 308Bellm which uses 444 Marlin brass necked down with 308 Win dies and loaded to top 300 Savage velocities.
I sold her Ruger 77/44 44mag rifle so moved her back to the single shot rifle for now. I had different levels of reloads worked up to see what level of recoil she could handle. The load we settled on for her were the top loads with 150gr X bullets @ 2650fps.
Sunday I was up in another more remote area and carried my 300 RUM for hunting deer/black bear and my Ruger SRH 454 Casull. All I saw where grouse, rabbits and a small coyote that someone had shot and left in the middle of the logging road.
I'll get some more photo's off to Gibbs505 to post as soon as I get a chance to take them and he has the time to post them.
I always leave my 1911 mag's empty for storage and load them again when I get to the range. If I am heading out into the bush I load the mag's before I leave the house.
I have been loading for dozens of different firearms over the last 27 years with this being the first dangerous problem that I have ever encountered be it the firearm or my reloads. So for those that are concerned that I may have developed a flinch... I'll have to say that I have most definately not.
Gibbs505 I am doing fine... I was out Saturday with my wife and dog's prospecting. I carried my Glock 20 10mm and she had my T/C Contender carbine chambered in a wildcat called 308Bellm which uses 444 Marlin brass necked down with 308 Win dies and loaded to top 300 Savage velocities.
I sold her Ruger 77/44 44mag rifle so moved her back to the single shot rifle for now. I had different levels of reloads worked up to see what level of recoil she could handle. The load we settled on for her were the top loads with 150gr X bullets @ 2650fps.
Sunday I was up in another more remote area and carried my 300 RUM for hunting deer/black bear and my Ruger SRH 454 Casull. All I saw where grouse, rabbits and a small coyote that someone had shot and left in the middle of the logging road.
Camp Cook
Had a similar situation last spring with my Norinco, full custom gum. I had either a double charge of 231 or bullet set back. I suspect the former but may have been the latter.
Case let go at six o'clock and sent gases down the mag well. All the bullets in the mag were set back by the pressure. Grips were cracked and hand was blackened. Pride was hurt but the pistol survived intact, including the mag!
I re-visited my reloading procdedures and instituted a couple of changes when I set up my powder measure for a specific powder charge. I also re-checked my crimping die. I am now certain it was a double charge.
Recoil was slightly heavier than normal. Bullet hit target dead center. I got off lucky, as did my pistol. I guess, after 30 years of reloading the odds either caught up to me or I had become complacent. Either way I don't need another reminder to be very careful and develop routines that cross check your reloading process for safety.
In the end sometimes Sh*t happens. If anyone reading this thread thinks it can't happen to them, all I can say is your turn will come. Camp Cook glad to here you are OK, I doubt the stars will align like that again for you.
Take Care
Bob
Had a similar situation last spring with my Norinco, full custom gum. I had either a double charge of 231 or bullet set back. I suspect the former but may have been the latter.
Case let go at six o'clock and sent gases down the mag well. All the bullets in the mag were set back by the pressure. Grips were cracked and hand was blackened. Pride was hurt but the pistol survived intact, including the mag!
I re-visited my reloading procdedures and instituted a couple of changes when I set up my powder measure for a specific powder charge. I also re-checked my crimping die. I am now certain it was a double charge.
Recoil was slightly heavier than normal. Bullet hit target dead center. I got off lucky, as did my pistol. I guess, after 30 years of reloading the odds either caught up to me or I had become complacent. Either way I don't need another reminder to be very careful and develop routines that cross check your reloading process for safety.
In the end sometimes Sh*t happens. If anyone reading this thread thinks it can't happen to them, all I can say is your turn will come. Camp Cook glad to here you are OK, I doubt the stars will align like that again for you.
Take Care
Bob
About 3 years ago I moved from a single stage RCBS RockChucker press to a RCBS Piggy Back 11 progressive press to load my standard velocity handgun loads.
So even though it is difficult to mess up with this system it is also very hard to tell if a case gets a double charge or not. If the system mess's up I know instantly that there is a problem and I double check all the stations including how much powder is in the case at that station. I also use a Lee Factory Crimp die to crimp every handgun case that I load.
Gibbs I would love to replace Heidi's rifle if someday we can afford it. I have been thinking of either a Marlin 1894SS 44mag that I could also use for cowboy action shooting or a s/s, black/grey laminate stocked, 16.5" barreled Ruger Compact in 308 Win (that I could use as well).
For the first couple of years after the baby is born money will be fairly tight and I don't really see her needing a rifle too much due to her already making sounds along the lines of not going into the bush until the baby is older.
I also have a pre64 Win 94 30-30 that she can use for now if she wants.
Canuck44 thanks for your thoughts and experience. Knowing that I am not alone in this does make me feel a little bit better.
Onthebeep I'll get those new pic's right away.
So even though it is difficult to mess up with this system it is also very hard to tell if a case gets a double charge or not. If the system mess's up I know instantly that there is a problem and I double check all the stations including how much powder is in the case at that station. I also use a Lee Factory Crimp die to crimp every handgun case that I load.
Gibbs I would love to replace Heidi's rifle if someday we can afford it. I have been thinking of either a Marlin 1894SS 44mag that I could also use for cowboy action shooting or a s/s, black/grey laminate stocked, 16.5" barreled Ruger Compact in 308 Win (that I could use as well).
For the first couple of years after the baby is born money will be fairly tight and I don't really see her needing a rifle too much due to her already making sounds along the lines of not going into the bush until the baby is older.
I also have a pre64 Win 94 30-30 that she can use for now if she wants.
Canuck44 thanks for your thoughts and experience. Knowing that I am not alone in this does make me feel a little bit better.
Onthebeep I'll get those new pic's right away.
99%+ of these "events" are reloading errors. Not saying yours was for sure, but have you ever heard of ockham's razor? It means when confronted with evidence, the simplest answer is often the right one. (ie, if you hear hoofprints at a rodeo, think horses - not zebras).
Applying that principle to your event, I would have to conclude reloading error resulting in overcharge and terminal (to the barrel) pressure spike.
Applying that principle to your event, I would have to conclude reloading error resulting in overcharge and terminal (to the barrel) pressure spike.
Claven2
It takes awhile for the bruise on ones ego to heal. Took me awhile, though the jury is still out if I had bullet setback or not. I can tell you straight though there was a heavy examination of how I reload and steps taken to almost eliminate an accidental double charge. I say almost because I intend to treat each loading as a potential double charge.
Anyone can get lost it just takes a damm fool to stay lost.
Take Care
Bob
It takes awhile for the bruise on ones ego to heal. Took me awhile, though the jury is still out if I had bullet setback or not. I can tell you straight though there was a heavy examination of how I reload and steps taken to almost eliminate an accidental double charge. I say almost because I intend to treat each loading as a potential double charge.
Anyone can get lost it just takes a damm fool to stay lost.
Take Care
Bob
Tightgroup is probably the easiest powder to double charge; you need very little of it, so a double charge wouldn't even come close to overflow the case which would happen with many other powders.
I stopped using it; I found it made guns very hot, very quickly...
I stopped using it; I found it made guns very hot, very quickly...
Don't get me wrong I am not living in denial... I am not saying that it wasn't a double charge that I experienced, what I am saying is that I don't know what it was yet. Once Gunnar examines the barrel we'll know what the problem most likely is/was.
I am also thinking that even though my reloading practices are very safe I will be far more diligent in the future.
I have to admit that my ego isn't bruised in the least, if it was a double charge I will be the first to admit that I screwed up and hopefully this failure will not only help my future reloading practices to be safer but will help others to learn by my mistake, that is if I made one.
I tried taking more pic's but I couldn't get anything better than what is already posted.
I am also thinking that even though my reloading practices are very safe I will be far more diligent in the future.
I have to admit that my ego isn't bruised in the least, if it was a double charge I will be the first to admit that I screwed up and hopefully this failure will not only help my future reloading practices to be safer but will help others to learn by my mistake, that is if I made one.
I tried taking more pic's but I couldn't get anything better than what is already posted.
