Keep it clean or fouled?

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sure as shootin

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I've got to say I'm been a little surprised of late how differently some South African surplus ammo I bought last winter shoots out of my gun (Sako A7 .308) depending on how fouled up the barrel is. Lately, I've been using Wipeout when cleaning the barrel,,,, usually after I've put a 2-3 boxes through it. This past weekend I put a fourth box through it before cleaning it and. When I was using a bench rest the groups were MOA at a 100 yards,,,,,not bad for cheapo surplus ammo.

Flipped the first target upside down since part of it was already peppered with holes:





Even when I was lying down just using my pack as a rest at 80 yards it was pretty darn accurate:



BUT when I cleaned the gun Saturday afternoon with Wipeout and shot off what ammo I had left (12 shots) the next day, albeit windy, my first grouping was at least 4-5 inches! By the 4th grouping it got back down to 2 1/2". I can't believe how shoddy the groups were with a real clean barrel. I should also mention that when I've been using the Wipeout all I'm noticing coming out of the barrel is carbon fouling, not the tell tale blue copper fouling you often see when using that product. The gun is only one year old so maybe there hasn't been a lot of copper build up yet??

I haven't sighted it in yet with my go to hunting ammo,,,,that will be next weekend but I'm wondering if I should just keep running a few more of the S.A. crap down the pipe to see if the groupings get nice and small again before sighting it in with the good stuff?

What do you think,,,,,clean or not to clean until the hunting season is over? Most seasons I doubt I take more than half a dozen shots with any one rifle I'll use,,,,and some of those are mid season test shots to see if the gun is still sighted in.
 
I clean after every use... always have... always will.

After being in the field, particularly in moist conditions, I give it a good once over and snake the bore, even if unfired.
 
With my rifles, I always run a few patches through about every 20-50 shots depending on the loads & bullets used. I use Jet Lube 12/34 exclusively to get out the powder foulng, followed with dry patching. Hoppes No.9 will do as well. When the bore does start to get too much metal fouling for my liking, then I use Wipe Out to get 'em ready to start fresh.
 
If your shooting out of the elements then I say clean every few hundred rounds. Seriously, a deep cleaning is good if the barrel is wet from hard hunting or going to be stored for many months, but if your shooting regularly its just not needed. At most a bore snake through the barrel once will be enough. A lot of shooting pros ive seen online only do 2-3 patches every 250-300 rounds. Ive tried this and found accuracy remains constant, but if I clean every 40-50 rounds until the barrel blinds me (12ish patches) then it takes 9 or so rounds to bring my groupings back in.
 
I also only clean every couple hundred or more rounds. My .308 is sitting around 600 and I don't think the accuracy has fallen off yet. If I was storing it for a period of over 6 months, I would clean, if accuracy falls off, I would clean. A couple of patches every couple hundred rounds and strip it of copper every 6-800 (all this depends on your rifles preference much like a tuned load in my opinion) seems to working well for me.
 
gwes2003 said:
If your shooting out of the elements then I say clean every few hundred rounds. Seriously, a deep cleaning is good if the barrel is wet from hard hunting or going to be stored for many months, but if your shooting regularly its just not needed. At most a bore snake through the barrel once will be enough. A lot of shooting pros ive seen online only do 2-3 patches every 250-300 rounds. Ive tried this and found accuracy remains constant, but if I clean every 40-50 rounds until the barrel blinds me (12ish patches) then it takes 9 or so rounds to bring my groupings back in.
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I remember the first time I used Wipeout in my Remmington 700 BDL (35 years old) the patches came out very blue. I can't remeber ever using a copper solvent on that rifle. The first grouping was terrible! When I got to the third group of three shots, copper equilibrium must have occurred because it resulted in a good MOA grouping at 100 yards.
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
With my rifles, I always run a few patches through about every 20-50 shots depending on the loads & bullets used. I use Jet Lube 12/34 exclusively to get out the powder foulng, followed with dry patching. Hoppes No.9 will do as well. When the bore does start to get too much metal fouling for my liking, then I use Wipe Out to get 'em ready to start fresh.
Click to expand...

Do you just use patches with the solvent or do you run a brush through the barrel, as well? And what would you consider to be clean enough? Will you still see carbon fouling on every pass with a patch or do you like to see your last patch come out clean? I have a hunch I might be OVER cleaning my rifle when I do it because the last patch i use comes out clean. Maybe that's why my first few shots through the rifle all have a different POI.
 
sure as shootin said:
I remember the first time I used Wipeout in my Remmington 700 BDL (35 years old) the patches came out very blue. I can't remeber ever using a copper solvent on that rifle. The first grouping was terrible! When I got to the third group of three shots, copper equilibrium must have occurred because it resulted in a good MOA grouping at 100 yards.
Click to expand...

Yep, I've found that not only do barrels like certain bullets for tight groups.They also like a certain amount of fouling for tight groups
 
My buddy has a Browning X-Bolt 7mm mag and his rifle 100% shoots high right on the first shot after cleaning then shoots 1MOA after that. We will sight in our guns in 2 weeks or so and he will clean and fire one shot and leave it till our hunt.
 
sure as shootin said:
I've got to say I'm been a little surprised of late how differently some South African surplus ammo I bought last winter shoots out of my gun (Sako A7 .308) depending on how fouled up the barrel is. Lately, I've been using Wipeout when cleaning the barrel,,,, usually after I've put a 2-3 boxes through it. This past weekend I put a fourth box through it before cleaning it and. When I was using a bench rest the groups were MOA at a 100 yards,,,,,not bad for cheapo surplus ammo.



BUT when I cleaned the gun Saturday afternoon with Wipeout and shot off what ammo I had left (12 shots) the next day, albeit windy, my first grouping was at least 4-5 inches! By the 4th grouping it got back down to 2 1/2". I can't believe how shoddy the groups were with a real clean barrel. I should also mention that when I've been using the Wipeout all I'm noticing coming out of the barrel is carbon fouling, not the tell tale blue copper fouling you often see when using that product. The gun is only one year old so maybe there hasn't been a lot of copper build up yet??

I haven't sighted it in yet with my go to hunting ammo,,,,that will be next weekend but I'm wondering if I should just keep running a few more of the S.A. crap down the pipe to see if the groupings get nice and small again before sighting it in with the good stuff?

What do you think,,,,,clean or not to clean until the hunting season is over? Most seasons I doubt I take more than half a dozen shots with any one rifle I'll use,,,,and some of those are mid season test shots to see if the gun is still sighted in.
Click to expand...

When you clean with WipeOut, do you follow up with an oily patch, then patch the bore dry? When WipeOut is left in the bore over an extended period of time it becomes gummy and sticky. If you oil the bore, then patch it dry, the bore surface is more consistent, and rifle should begin shooting true with fewer rounds through the bore. If the problem persists, you've answered your own question, the first cold bore shot out of the barrel must hit your intended point of impact, and if it doesn't do that with a clean bore, then you have to leave it fouled.
 
I clean my rifles through the year every 20 to 100 or so rounds no more than a couple outings to the range type of deal. During hunting season what ever rifles will be used after a good cleaning, some fouling shots and having them dialed in I don't clean them until the end of the season. If I dunked one or it got stomped in the mud or whatever I'd clean it but most years a couple will go 4 months without seeing a cleaning rod.
 
Most of my rifles shoot better with a dirty bore. The Rugers the dirtier the better.
An old Model 670 Winchester does not seem to matter, clean, dirty it likes it either way.
I have even found that just a bore snake through the bbl. will make some rifles shoot different with the next shot or two.
Before deer season I sight in and go hunting , if I have to clean during hunting I just wipe the bore and take 2 shots before the next day.
Everything gets a good scrubbing at least once or twice a year depending on how much it gets shot.

David
 
Boomer said:
The first cold bore shot out of the barrel must hit your intended point of impact, and if it doesn't do that with a clean bore, then you have to leave it fouled.
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Making this the priority has lead me to leave the bore fouled in my .308 Finnlight. Friend of mine has a T3 varmint he leaves fouled for the same reason. Hard for the OCD types possibly, but this has to be the priority.
 
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