Keep my stainless steel wet tumbler or change to a 6 to 10 L ultrasonic cleaner ?

[Munkey1973]

I've had my Frankford Arsenal Full Size Tumbler for about 3 years.
After a 3 hour cycle, it makes most cases look newer than new.....which is awesome.

However, one thing I am getting tired of though is the peening/pitting of the case mouths after each cleaning. Sick of re-running all the cases through the 3 way trimmer to clean up the mouths every time.

So I am starting to look toward the ultrasonic route to avoid this problem.
And I am also liking the perks of cleaning other things in there as well (dies, gun parts, tools, airbrushes, etc).

For a "highly polished appearance," I would guess stainless steel wet tumbling probably wins by a land-slide..... but I kind of don't care about that anymore if I can save time at my reloading bench.

I guess all that I really want to know, will an ultrasonic clean (not necessary polish) all of carbon out of cases as good as stainless steel wet tumbling ?

Anyone using both that could please chime in with their 2 cents?

 

[adamg]

No, no, no, and no. Ultrasonics do a mediocre job of cleaning cases compared to stainless pins.

Can't you just run your cases for much less time in the pins? If anything I see the fact that they 'work' the case mouths as an advantage, because I can leave the rough crappy mouth from the Dillon RT1500 trimmer and rely on the pins to take down the flange it leaves.

 

[Munkey1973]

No, no, no, and no. Ultrasonics do a mediocre job of cleaning cases compared to stainless pins.

Can't you just run your cases for much less time in the pins? If anything I see the fact that they 'work' the case mouths as an advantage, because I can leave the rough crappy mouth from the Dillon RT1500 trimmer and rely on the pins to take down the flange it leaves.

I find that if I want any kind of rifle case to come out 100% free of carbon, then they have to run on the Frankford's full 3 hour cycle. After that cycle, the mouths are peened and beat up. My three-way trimmer is a 21st Century Shooting and it leaves the case mouths perfectly consistent.

I don't like the idea of having to trim 0.0005 or so after every clean (will reduce longevity of the case and is too time consuming).

Since you use the SS media to smooth/champer your cases, I assume that you re-size and trim before you SS wet tumble ?
I tumble before I do anything.. tumble before I anneal even.

 

[667]

I've had my Frankford Arsenal Full Size Tumbler for about 3 years.
After a 3 hour cycle, it makes most cases look newer than new.....which is awesome.
However, one thing I am getting tired of though is the peening/pitting of the case mouths after each cleaning.

Three hours...?
There's your peening problem root right there.
I run my self built wet tumbler for about an hour... Brass comes out shiny without having been beat to s***.

 

[M1-Garand]

I run mine for only 1/2 hr with hot water,some Tide laundry detergent,a bit of Lemishine and only a small amount of SS pins,brass comes out spotless,even the insides and the primer pockets.

 

[Munkey1973]

Three hours...?
There's your peening problem root right there.
I run my self built wet tumbler for about an hour... Brass comes out shiny without having been beat to s***.

I run mine for only 1/2 hr with hot water,some Tide laundry detergent,a bit of Lemishine and only a small amount of SS pins,brass comes out spotless,even the insides and the primer pockets.

About an hour eh? ... mmm I wonder why I can't keep it that short.

For my Frankford, I use 4 litres of water, 1/4 cup of lemon Dawn dish detergent, and about 2 and 1/2 tablespoons of Lemishine.
I only clean them in batches of 75 cases at a time....

Should increase my concentration of detergent ? Use an alternative detergent ?

 

[bigedp51]

I also got tired of case mouth peening and switched from wet tumbling with SS media to ultrasonic cleaning.

I use 2 tablespoons of dishwashing liquid and a 1/4 tablespoon of Lemi-Shine in my ultrasonic cleaner. This varies with water hardness and how dirty the brass.

The secret to ultrasonic cleaning is getting the water as hot as possible for the best cleaning.

I put hot tap water in the ultrasonic cleaner and run it for 4 eight minute cleaning cycles. And on the last cycle, the heater light goes out and the brass is good and clean.

Bottom line, the frequency of the ultrasonic cleaner, cleaning chemicals, and water temp affect the cleaning.

If you look at the MSDS of the ultrasonic cleaning solutions they contain citric acid and water softeners. So I use dishwashing soap and Lemi-Shine and save $$$.

Ultrasonic Cleaning 101
https://www.omegasonics.com/resources/ultrasonic-cleaning-101/?ppc_keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiJvayYfg6gIVCQiICR3tAwCLEAAYASAAEgLALfD_BwE

I bought a Lyman clone on Amazon below.

iSonic Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner P4820-WPB with Heater and Digital Timer, Plastic Basket.
https://www.amazon.com/iSonic-P4820-WPB-Commercial-Ultrasonic-Cleaner/dp/B00HLBKNLW/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=iSonic%2BProfessional%2BGrade%2BUltrasonic%2BCleaner%2BP4820-WPB%2Bwith%2BHeater%2Band%2BDigital%2BTimer%2C%2BPlastic%2BBasket&qid=1595394712&sr=8-3&th=1

Digitial timer: 180, 280, 380, 480 and 90 seconds.
Large tank size: 9.6"x5.9"x3". Tank capacity 2.6 Qt / 2.5 L.
Power: 110V 160W including the heater. (220V available with extra charge) Ultrasonic frequency: 35,000 Hz.
Come with a full size plastic basket.
Warning: Do not use liquid bleach in the s.s. tank and corrosive solvents.

Below photo from Amazon but my cases look the same.

Below are the instructions for my STM tumbler, it tells you to tumble for 3 to 4 hours. And even after one hour the case mouths were peened and needed to be trimmed and deburred. I had enough of wet tumbling after tumbling some .44 special cases and had brass flakes on my expander and inside the cases.

 

[snooker]

I use hot water, don't use the pins, use 2 tablespoons of blue Dawn, and 1/2 teaspoon of Lemishine. Too much lemishine will cause spotting and can tarnish the cases. Tumble for about an hour. This for approx. 300 to 500 223 cases.
You can find this recipe on stainlesstumblingmedia.com
EDIT
Looks close to what Ed uses.

 

[theDuck]

I trim and bevel with a Giraud Tri-way trimmer AFTER using the SS pin wet tumbler. Works for me.

 

[JohnnyPython]

Try soaking overnight in hot water and then tumble for 1 hour. Primer pockets are not spotless but not a big deal.

 

[palwait]

I would stick to the tumbler and adjust as discussed above. I tried a ultrasonic cleaner that failed to clean and then failed due to a pin hole leak.(Did get my money back!)

 

[bigedp51]

Below on the left is a case that was tumbled far to long and had a badly peened case mouth.

The case on the right is right out of the factory bag and the result of factory tumbling.

The only thing to do with rifle cases is to trim and deburr the case after each wet tumbling. The problem with pistol cases is you can not do the same thing.

I have a Lyman turbo vibratory tumbler, a wet tumbler, and a sonic cleaner. And with a sonic cleaner, you do not have peened case mouths or media dust inside the cases.

Each type tumbler has its pluses and minuses, and with wet tumbling the shorter time you tumble the less case mouth peening you will have.

And with a sonic cleaner the cases are cleaned in half the time as wet tumbling. Does the sonic cleaner do a good job on dirty range pickup brass, not really.

Bottom line, if you do not mind trimming and deburring every time you wet tumble this method cleans best. But many competitive shooters do not like removing the carbon from inside the case neck, meaning they do not wet tumble.

 

[B]

The peening issue with stainless tumblers is overblown IMO. Three hours is wayyyy too much first of all. Even filthy cases are like new after an hour. Experiment with your additives. Try less soap and more citric acid.

The acid is what give the brass it's sheen. I use 1/4tsp Dawn, 2tsp lemi-shine and a small splash of Mr. Clean and tumble for one hour. I do not believe the brass could be any shinier and thoroughly clean. I trim after cleaning so peening won't be an issue for me anyway.

 

[bigedp51]

The peening issue with stainless tumblers is overblown IMO. Three hours is wayyyy too much first of all. Even filthy cases are like new after an hour. Experiment with your additives. Try less soap and more citric acid.

The acid is what give the brass it's sheen. I use 1/4tsp Dawn, 2tsp lemi-shine and a small splash of Mr. Clean and tumble for one hour. I do not believe the brass could be any shinier and thoroughly clean. I trim after cleaning so peening won't be an issue for me anyway.

Case mouth peening has many causes, the rotational speed of the drum and how many cases put into the tumbler are the big causes. The peening is caused by the cases hitting the case mouth, so if the tumbler is over loaded it takes longer to clean the cases. And this means the more the case mouth is hit by the other cases it increases the peening. So do not over load your tumbler, less is more when it come to the time it takes to clean your cases.

The dishwashing soap cleans and holds the dirt in suspension. And if the water is not sudsy at the end of the tumling time you need to add more soap. Meaning if you do not use enough soap the dirt will stick the the cases.

Lemi-Shine contains citric acid and a water softner to help get your dishes cleaner in the dishwasher. It does the same for cleaning brass and I advise following your tumblers directions.

Bottom line, case mouth peening is "NOT" overblown and it can happen to anyone.

Below is what happens to your case when wet tumbling, and they are going for a wild ride without a seat belt.

Below is a .44 Special case I tumbled for one hour and it has a peened case mouth. And when the case mouth was expanded small brass flakes fell into the case and stuck to the expander.

The case had been trimmed and deburred before the first firing and then wet tumbled. And you can see the results of the cases hitting each other. And after this I bought my sonic cleaner and no more peening of the case mouths.

 

[tbrwlf]

I have both. And have had dry media vibratory cleaners.

Wet tumble with pins, dish soap, lemishine, Lyman turbo sonic case cleaner, AND hot water.

Always spotless after 2 hours. Rinse and use a separator to get the pins separated. Rinse in hot hot hot water. Dump on a towel and leave for a couple of hours. No issues.

Ultra sonic is very good at cleaning gun parts. Not so much for brass.

 

[bigedp51]

 

[HasegawaYamato]

Was doing US only untill I found my arisaka leaks due to insufficient chamber pressure. The leak got my brass super dirty, covered with gun powder residuals, and my hornady US failed me on this one.
Then I send my brass to my fellow who has wet tumbler, and the brass returned like new.
So Im thinking both wet tumbler and US should be kept.

 

[B]

So again, unless little flakes of brass ruin your life peening is overblown. In a run of 5000 9mm I may end up with enough brass junk to bother spending 1 minute wiping it up. For rifle cartridges you can always just trim afterwards or simply not worry about either. I have been "dealing" with peening for an incredible amount of reloads and it's simply not presented any actual problems.

Maybe if I start competing at 1000m+ or whatever I'll care but for now there simply isn't anything to worry about. I'm sure Mr. copy and paste will be along with more gifs and pictures to explain things I already know but, oh well. As was said they all have their place. Don't present silly things as major issues though.

 

[Deathrawt]

I wet tumble my brass and don’t use any pins, they are too much of a pain in the a$$ and the brass doesn’t get that much cleaner imo
As far as the mouths getting peened ya it’s a non issue don’t need to tumble for longer then 1.5 hrs and the peening is minor
That pic of the 44 case above is a non issue, anyone who thinks that is a problem has bigger issues to worry about

 

[bWONGER]

Never seen the point of wet tumbling to be honest. I used to use an ultra sonic, but found the case shine wouldn't last. Now I've been using a dry vibratory tumbler for years. I just buy crushed walnut reptile bedding and add in a cap full of nu finish. After 1 hour they look good as new and for a fraction of the cost. However one benefit for me of the ultra sonic was being able to easily clean some firearm parts.