KelTec parts

Milofficer said:
As I understand it, Kel-Tec is trying their best to stem the flow of US-market guns coming into Canada to prevent more grey market firearms from adding to the existing problem. I think NS actually bought guns from a US distributor that went belly up, and there are no laws preventing them from doing so. Unfortunately, retail stores are just as complicit when they sell these grey market guns without informing the buyer as such.

A lot of stores just copy and paste product descriptions directly from US sites, including the parts about the Lifetime Warranty, when in fact the guns don't come with one. It gets worse when a store stocks Kel-Tecs that came from Vault (with a lifetime warranty) AND also grey market Kel-Tecs from NS that have a questionable 1-yr warranty. That's not good business.

The whole spare parts market in Canada is a thankless job for any retailer that tries to take it on. Look at how many companies have juggled being the CZ importer over the years.

I've worked in firearms retail in Canada so I know a bit about the ins and outs. I can only imagine it puts Vault in a tough spot because they want to remain a wholesaler only, but now there's a number of Kel-Tec owners out there looking for spare parts and they can't provide any parts because no retailer wants to stock them. Vault did say (before CGN deleted them) that they could easily bring in parts to supply the demand, but they'd need a retailer to actually place the orders first. They also said they're looking at creating their own retail side for parts, but who knows how long that would take?
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In a free market, the grey market should be allowed to exist.
Now as a authorized service centre, Vault should still service grey market guns BUT be allowed to charged for the service. So yes maybe $100 for a firing pin.
It seem strange that Vault say they can't process payment, e-commerce web site solution are prepackage stuff nowadays.
 
wai762 said:
In a free market, the grey market should be allowed to exist.
Now as a authorized service centre, Vault should still service grey market guns BUT be allowed to charged for the service. So yes maybe $100 for a firing pin.
It seem strange that Vault say they can't process payment, e-commerce web site solution are prepackage stuff nowadays.
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This feeds into what I was saying about it being a thankless job for businesses to try and supply parts or service. Vault has the right to decide if they want to remain a wholesale-only operation or not. They signed on to provide warranty service to the Canadian market (and to be fair, a lifetime warranty to the original owner is pretty good and not very common in the Canadian firearms market), and they've stated that they'll bring the parts in for retailers that want to stock them. Nobody seems to mind that North Sylva is wholesale only despite being the company that is responsible for bringing in nearly all the grey market guns and then leaving owners out to dry.

Also it's not as easy as you might think to set up an e-store. There's a number of e-commerce providers that have stated they will not work with companies that sell firearms. The store I worked at had to rush to find a replacement when Shopify abruptly decided to pull the plug, and the replacement was a huge step down. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I can sympathize with a small business trying to do what it can. Nobody is going to please everyone.
 
Before buying everyday shooter type of gun I always research if I can hypothetically buy a basic things like spare pin or extractor - these are the parts which might brake after a few thousands of rounds. I have deleted Keltec from my list long ago. But keeping tracking if the Keltec parts situation will improve. I actually like their products. But don't want to buy another gun when FP brakes.
 
Milofficer said:
I don't think Amazon allows selling of firearm components. Accessories, yes. Firing pins are actually specifically listed as a prohibited item in their policy page.
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My point was more that distribution and sales of products has changed a fair bit in the last 10 years.
The old model needs to evolve or be replaced.
 
Not sure if op was able to pick up a firing pin from EE. If not, a certain other less then reputable gun trading site also have one for sale for 35 bucks if you look for it.
 
hello, why don't you start your own business if no one shipping parts there?
as you mentioned you didn't find the parts in whole Canada, setup a Meeting with KelTec team and talk about business you want to start with them.
For this, just create an ecommerce website using Magento framework and start your business.
 
Liam Mason said:
hello, why don't you start your own business if no one shipping parts there?
as you mentioned you didn't find the parts in whole Canada, setup a Meeting with KelTec team and talk about business you want to start with them.
For this, just create an ecommerce website using Magento framework and start your business.
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I rather just buy the parts from a store. I don't have time to setup a business.
I have a full time job and a family....
 
wai762 said:
In a free market, the grey market should be allowed to exist.
Now as a authorized service centre, Vault should still service grey market guns BUT be allowed to charged for the service. So yes maybe $100 for a firing pin.
It seem strange that Vault say they can't process payment, e-commerce web site solution are prepackage stuff nowadays.
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Grey market can exist. But they should fully disclose to potential buyers that there is no warranty. Buyer, such as myself, purchased from a reputable retailer and distributor under the assumption there is warranty. That wasn't the case.

It is a free market. Vault can choose who they will service or not. There might also be agreement between Vault and KelTec. Just like any business that choose not to enter the tender process due to risks.
 
Grey market products in any industry are an answer to a problem in the market. If the regular market is meeting the needs / demands of it's clients (which includes speed, price, availability, support, etc), there's no ground on which to build the grey market business.

When I first started in the motorcycle industry, certain American V-twins had massive wait-lists in the US, we had a weak Canadian dollar and very complicit Canadian dealers. The shop I was working at would sell quite literally an entire semi-load of motorcycles at well above Canadian retail pricing by adding things like "first year prepaid maintenance" that were non-negotiable. Entrepreneurial Canadians and Americans would buy these bikes up out of the Canadian market, register them locally, pack them into trailers and import them into the US making an absolute killing (selling price was roughly the CAD price they'd paid, only in US dollars so 30% or more gross profit). It did nothing to disturb the US market as the demand was so high, while it all but eliminated the used market locally and kept prices very high.

Fast forward a few years, the dollar is at or above par, the Canadian market can't meet it's own demand but there's a surplus in the US. Situation gets reversed and now "used" US-origin Harleys are flooding across the border in such numbers as to disrupt some of the local markets. One of the importers I knew brought over 600 bikes into Alberta alone. That's an enormous amount of bike sales in that market. Dealers that happily screwed their own market to ship by the truckload into the US were demanding that CBSA and Trev Deeley Imports (basically HD Canada) do something to curb the issue. Live by the sword... It was pretty short lived as the dollar eventually settled into a position where it wasn't as easy to make a quick buck anymore and the importers found a new game. Local dealers wouldn't warranty the bikes so anyone that wanted warranty work had to make a road-trip to the US. Not bad if you're close to the border but a real pain in the rear for anyone living in the north. Between the exchange rate, the current economic situation and Harley's capacity, that scenario is unlikely to repeat in that business.

The only reason we don't see more of this in the firearms world is thanks to the relatively high amount of BS involved in getting parts and items back and forth across the border.
 
Currency fluctuations are a nightmare for local sellers of US-imported items. One of our bikes came in when the exchange was 1.54 or 1.56:1. It had been a total screw-around with the factory trying to get any of those models at all and in the end we managed to get one. In retrospect it turned out to be for the better because before we could move that bike, the CAD/USD exchange went on it's roller-coaster up to $1.00:$1.10 - retail in the US was now cheaper than what I'd paid the factory. You could buy the bike in the US, freight it up, import it and have all the necessary inspections done for less than what I'd paid. Not their fault, not my fault, just the nature of doing business internationally.

The national distributor (we didn't have one, we dealt direct), typically sets the price based on some currency hedging and market conditions and it's set for the season. Dealers pay what they have to pay regardless of whether the importer's exchange-related costs go up or down. Might be a great year for them if things move the right way. Customers pay the retail price (or if it's in a hot market, retail plus non-negotiable "fees") for the season and all is well. Imagine how angry you'd be if everyone was pricing based on the floating exchange rate and you happened to buy when the exchange sucked. 3 months later your neighbour buys the same model and saves $5k because the dollar moved the other way...

IRUNGUNS gets around it by selling strictly in USD despite, theoretically at least, being a Canadian company operating in Canada. I will admit that rubs me the wrong way - I understand, but I don't like. Everyone else takes their chances and hedges appropriately which means some people go to Brownells or IRG and so forth because the price is almost always less by the time it's landed. I think the parts business for firearms is a difficult one. It would be equally difficult for complete firearms if it were less of a hassle to complete personal transactions with US sellers (and there would be a much bigger market for "aftermarket" non-restricted barrel lengths).

The automotive market is way more shady. I did a quick comparo for a Corvette a few years ago - one for an Alberta sale, the identical car for a Montana sale. Taking into account the exchange, the bank's skim on the exchange, import fees and taxes and equipment conversions, the car was still $20,000 cheaper in Montana. That's real money. It wasn't that long ago that dealers in the US along the border were in all sorts of hot water for selling to non-resident Canadians. Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Ford and GM were all in the news. Meanwhile Chrysler is forcing dealers to sell their inventory into their used car fleets so they can record higher retail sales numbers...
 
Having worked the manufacturing side, retail side and wholesale side of the Canadian firearms industry, I can definitely attest to the frustration when the dollar changes or other factors come into play. I used to think as a consumer that it was outrageous that guns up here sold for so much more than US street prices, thinking that the exchange rate was the only thing to take into account. The reality is that there's not much margin on guns, and there are a lot of costs associated with bringing guns up here. It's frustrating for Canadian consumers, especially if the dollar suddenly comes close to parity and the prices don't change. But people don't realise how things work behind the scenes, with prices set in advance like you said.
 
Milofficer said:
Having worked the manufacturing side, retail side and wholesale side of the Canadian firearms industry, I can definitely attest to the frustration when the dollar changes or other factors come into play. I used to think as a consumer that it was outrageous that guns up here sold for so much more than US street prices, thinking that the exchange rate was the only thing to take into account. The reality is that there's not much margin on guns, and there are a lot of costs associated with bringing guns up here. It's frustrating for Canadian consumers, especially if the dollar suddenly comes close to parity and the prices don't change. But people don't realise how things work behind the scenes, with prices set in advance like you said.
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There are a lot of backseat drivers these days. Especially with Youtube and internet, without actual experience, they think they know how things work...
 
I used to work manage an internal machine shop for a small/medium sized business that also had a series of external shops for for overflow and items we didn't have the physical capacity to handle (I once had a block of magnesium show up by mistake that would barely fit in the back of a 6-foot pickup bed). We made and sold a boatload of wear parts for our products on a non-stop basis. Once we were acquired by a large multinational treading in new-to-them territory, everything went sideways. Instead of ordering with a phone call, customers had to establish accounts and terms and generate POs and on and on. "Corporate" jacked up the retail prices and burdened both external and internal operations to the point that things went from next-day shipping or 1-week lead to months in some cases.

They single-handedly created an opportunity for one of our less-scrupulous vendors. Our wear parts sales plummeted. An unannounced tour of the aforementioned vendor's shop one day revealed our drawings on the floor and our parts being made despite having no open contracts with them. They were selling them "out the back door" to our customers, which one of my customers later confirmed during conversation. "I need those parts to run my business and pay my staff. You raised the prices, complicated the purchasing and couldn't deliver on time. Of course I am [buying elsewhere].

When the inevitable end came, we had a series of meetings with myself, the country manager and the division CEO about looking at ways to keep the machine shop running and pumping out parts at a competitive rate and price but the internal structure of the corporation made it impossible. We literally couldn't compete for no other reason than "policy". In the end, that entire billion-dollar segment of the corporation's very broad business operations was divested at a substantial loss. Who would have guessed?

I suppose my point was that a well-run business doesn't give competitors the ground on which to establish themselves. There will always be people looking to save a buck, but a good business with proper customer service can overcome that. It's when you fail to deliver, are perceived to gouging (NR tax anyone?) and are generally considered to be "taking" instead of facilitating and participating that you lose. Perception is so important.
 
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